From brian@chpc.utah.edu Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:38:17 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:38:17 -0500 From: Brian Haymore brian@chpc.utah.edu Subject: IFCONFIG reports maxed out transmitted and recieved packets I just noteced that my ifconfig has hit the limit on transmitted and recieved packets. eth2 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:C0:F0:40:09:1F inet addr:10.110.10.254 Bcast:10.110.10.255 Mask:255.255.255.0 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:2147483647 errors:4 dropped:4 overruns:0 frame:4 TX packets:2147483647 errors:235 dropped:0 overruns:1 carrier:234 collisions:0 Interrupt:14 Base address:0xb400 What I am worried about is that this could cause a problem. Can anyone set my nerves at rest on this? IF it is a problem how have people solved this? It worries me because this will happen twice a month at the rate we are going. Thanks. -- Brian Haymore - Center for High Performance Computing, University of Utah Email: brian@chpc.utah.edu Fax: (801) 585-5366 Phone: (801) 585-1755 "I can please only one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either." --Anonymous From lombao@arrakis.es Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:19:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 04:19:28 -0500 From: Cesar Lombao lombao@arrakis.es Subject: Nerd Hello from Spain: I would like know some things about beowulf and clusters under linux, but FAQ's I saw don't have the answers I search for. If exists any paper or faq that contains the information, please, tell me where I can find it. First: BeoWulf can run and improve the performance of soft not compiled with PVM or other library of distributed computing? If apache (by example) launch several process, These process run on the same machine or beowulf can balance the process over other nodes? With 486 100 CPU and Ehternet 10Mbps can be reached some advantage? or, really, 10Mbps Ethernet is too poor for Beowulf? I know the web of www.beowulf.org, but is there any other important page about linux and distributed computing? Thanks in adavance and sorry for my english Saludos Cesar Lombao From enano@ceu.fi.udc.es Tue, 5 Jan 1999 07:10:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 07:10:11 -0500 From: Miguel Barreiro Paz enano@ceu.fi.udc.es Subject: Nerd Hi Cesar, and nice to hear from you again :) > First: > BeoWulf can run and improve the performance of soft not compiled with > PVM or other library of distributed computing? Black magic is not implemented yet under Linux, I'm afraid. > If apache (by example) launch several process, These process run on the > same machine or beowulf can balance the process over other nodes? Round-robin DNS and / or dynamic load balancing via an inverse proxy are probably the best approaches for a webserver that large that can't be hosted on a single machine. > With 486 100 CPU and Ehternet 10Mbps can be reached some advantage? or, > really, 10Mbps Ethernet is too poor for Beowulf? As usual, depends a lot on the application. For IPC-intensive tasks, it's unlikely to be useful except for testing purposes. If you are really seeking performance, a massive number of 486 nodes is not usually the way to go, giving today pricings... Regards, Miguel From ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:07:25 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:07:25 -0500 From: Joe FergusonBoth types of receipt ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Subject: FP on AMD K6 Does anyone have performance info comparing floating point performance on AMD K6 processors with comparably-clocked P-IIs? How about Cyrix? Thanks, -- Joe Ferguson ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Lockheed Martin Corp. NESC Support, EPA-RTP -- NC Voice: (919)-541-3716 From lxm@arch.cs.pku.edu.cn Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:55:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 21:55:20 -0500 From: Li Xiaoming lxm@arch.cs.pku.edu.cn Subject: No subject Hi, there, I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. Thanks ! Regards, Li Xiaoming, Professor Dept of Computer Sci. & Tech, Peking University, Beijing 100871, China From jakob@ostenfeld.dk Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:53:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:53:22 -0500 From: jakob@ostenfeld.dk jakob@ostenfeld.dk Subject: your mail On Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:01:13AM +0800, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > Hi, there, > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. > > Thanks ! Actually one could try to do software RAID over the new Network Block Device found in the 2.[12].x kernels. This way you could do any of the normal RAID levels, eg. optimize for stability, speed, or whatever. Does anyone know whether this would be feasible/possible ? I would like to try this myself, just as soon as I get some more machines and disks :) ................................................................ : jakob@ostenfeld.dtu.dk : And I see the elder races, : :.........................: putrid forms of man : : Jakob Østergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, : : OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. : :.........................:............{Konkhra}...............: From rbross@parl.ces.clemson.edu Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:14:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 01:14:59 -0500 From: Rob Ross rbross@parl.ces.clemson.edu Subject: your mail Li, PVFS does exactly this. See http://ece.clemson.edu/parl/pvfs/index.html for more information. Rob Ross Parallel Architecture Research Laboratory, Clemson University mailto:rbross@parl.eng.clemson.edu On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Li Xiaoming wrote: > Hi, there, > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. > > Thanks ! > > Regards, > Li Xiaoming, Professor > Dept of Computer Sci. & Tech, Peking University, Beijing 100871, China From camm@enhanced.com Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:15:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 09:15:35 -0500 From: Camm Maguire camm@enhanced.com Subject: your mail What about Coda? Rob Ross writes: > Li, > > PVFS does exactly this. See http://ece.clemson.edu/parl/pvfs/index.html > for more information. > > Rob Ross > Parallel Architecture Research Laboratory, Clemson University > mailto:rbross@parl.eng.clemson.edu > > On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > > Hi, there, > > > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. > > > > Thanks ! > > > > Regards, > > Li Xiaoming, Professor > > Dept of Computer Sci. & Tech, Peking University, Beijing 100871, China From kragen@pobox.com Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:32:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 11:32:08 -0500 From: Kragen Sitaker kragen@pobox.com Subject: Nerd On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Cesar Lombao wrote: > I would like know some things about beowulf and clusters under linux, > but FAQ's I saw don't have the answers I search for. This is a real problem; someone asks this question every month. You should ask the FAQ maintainers to add this answer. > First: > BeoWulf can run and improve the performance of soft not compiled with > PVM or other library of distributed computing? No. Run, yes; improve performance, no. > If apache (by example) launch several process, These process run on the > same machine or beowulf can balance the process over other nodes? No. You want MOSIX. mosix.cs.huji.ac.il. Available for Linux soon. > With 486 100 CPU and Ehternet 10Mbps can be reached some advantage? or, > really, 10Mbps Ethernet is too poor for Beowulf? Depends on your problem. If you're cracking crypto keys, a 2400bps modem is probably fast enough. If you're trying to simulate car crashes, you will probably want better bandwidth. > I know the web of www.beowulf.org, but is there any other important page > about linux and distributed computing? Dunno. -- Kragen Sitaker [around 1998-12-23], it is amazing to watch fear and loathing and greed at play with the more speculative Internet stocks. To call this a tulip craze would be a vast understatement. -- Adam Rifkin, From rauch@inf.ethz.ch Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:17:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 12:17:46 -0500 From: Felix Rauch rauch@inf.ethz.ch Subject: your mail On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 jakob@ostenfeld.dk wrote: > On Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:01:13AM +0800, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. > > Actually one could try to do software RAID over the new Network Block Device > found in the 2.[12].x kernels. > > This way you could do any of the normal RAID levels, eg. optimize for stability, > speed, or whatever. > > Does anyone know whether this would be feasible/possible ? I'd say this allows only for one machine to access the distributed files, because RAID is not used to share disks (usually, ONE machine controlls MANY disks, but not MANY machines control MANY disks). But I actually never tried this myself. We have some ongoing student work here in the very early stage of a parallel distributed serverless filesystem over myrinet. We have nothing working yet... - Felix -- Felix Rauch | Email: rauch@inf.ethz.ch Institute for Computer Systems | Homepage: http://www.cs.inf.ethz.ch/~rauch/ ETH Zentrum / RZ H15 | Phone: ++41 1 632 7489 CH - 8092 Zuerich / Switzerland | Fax: ++41 1 632 1307 From Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:19:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:19:39 -0500 From: Bohn, Christopher A Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Subject: your mail > I'd say this allows only for one machine to access the distributed > files, because RAID is not used to share disks (usually, ONE machine > controlls MANY disks, but not MANY machines control MANY disks). But I > actually never tried this myself. Methinks the Berkeley NOW project (http://now.cs.berkeley.edu/) did / is doing some work on using the disk drives on the many workstations as a RAID, which each machine could then access. Take care, cb *-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Capt Christopher A. Bohn Graduate Student, Electrical (digital) Engineering Air Force Institute of Technology Phone (937)255-3636 (DSN 785) AFIT/EN638 Lab x4606 Voicemail x6638 2950 P St, Box 4638 email Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Wright-Patterson AFB OH 45433-7765 EngrBohn@aol.com http://members.aol.com/EngrBohn/ *-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > -----Original Message----- > From: Felix Rauch [SMTP:rauch@inf.ethz.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 12:18 PM > To: jakob@ostenfeld.dk > Cc: Li Xiaoming; beowulf@beowulf.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: Re: your mail > > On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 jakob@ostenfeld.dk wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:01:13AM +0800, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > > > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf > environment. > > > > Actually one could try to do software RAID over the new Network Block > Device > > found in the 2.[12].x kernels. > > > > This way you could do any of the normal RAID levels, eg. optimize for > stability, > > speed, or whatever. > > > > Does anyone know whether this would be feasible/possible ? > > I'd say this allows only for one machine to access the distributed > files, because RAID is not used to share disks (usually, ONE machine > controlls MANY disks, but not MANY machines control MANY disks). But I > actually never tried this myself. > > We have some ongoing student work here in the very early stage of a > parallel distributed serverless filesystem over myrinet. We have > nothing working yet... > > - Felix > -- > Felix Rauch | Email: rauch@inf.ethz.ch > Institute for Computer Systems | Homepage: > http://www.cs.inf.ethz.ch/~rauch/ > ETH Zentrum / RZ H15 | Phone: ++41 1 632 7489 > CH - 8092 Zuerich / Switzerland | Fax: ++41 1 632 1307 From rbross@parl.ces.clemson.edu Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:44:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:44:45 -0500 From: Rob Ross rbross@parl.ces.clemson.edu Subject: Beowulf, file systems, nbd (was Re: your mail) The NBD (Network Block Device) support in 2.1-2.2 could be quite interesting as a building block for a parallel file system, but significant additional software will be needed to provide a file system on the distributed resources and to handle consistency issues (so multiple clients could access simultaneously). Definitely a neat tool to play with... Rob Ross Parallel Architecture Research Lab, Clemson University rbross@parl.ces.clemson.edu On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Felix Rauch wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 jakob@ostenfeld.dk wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 06, 1999 at 11:01:13AM +0800, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file systems that > > > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf environment. > > > > Actually one could try to do software RAID over the new Network Block Device > > found in the 2.[12].x kernels. > > > > This way you could do any of the normal RAID levels, eg. optimize for stability, > > speed, or whatever. > > > > Does anyone know whether this would be feasible/possible ? > > I'd say this allows only for one machine to access the distributed > files, because RAID is not used to share disks (usually, ONE machine > controlls MANY disks, but not MANY machines control MANY disks). But I > actually never tried this myself. > > We have some ongoing student work here in the very early stage of a > parallel distributed serverless filesystem over myrinet. We have > nothing working yet... From kpm@ids.net Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:46:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 22:46:13 -0500 From: Kevin McAloon kpm@ids.net Subject: your mail On Wed, 06 Jan 1999, Felix Rauch wrote: > >I'd say this allows only for one machine to access the distributed >files, because RAID is not used to share disks (usually, ONE machine >controlls MANY disks, but not MANY machines control MANY disks). But I >actually never tried this myself. > Actually that depends on the disk controller. If you are using a multi-port controller then subsequent port assignments can be for other hosts to have access to the disk array simultaneously in a clustered environment. I believe Connelly Data Systems in Cambridge, MA, USA has a product which can do this. I looked at their stuff a couple of years ago for an application but it was not for LINUX, alas Solaris. mac where do you want to go next year - support open source systems >From the MacroHard Federation - Rhode Island member From paciucci@pcainf1.ing.uniroma1.it Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:47:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:47:15 -0500 From: Gabriele Paciucci paciucci@pcainf1.ing.uniroma1.it Subject: FP on AMD K6 www.cpureview.com ? -->see the article section Gabriele Paciucci Linux User Group Roma - Pluto LiMe98 - Pluto Meeting 1998: IO C'ERO !!! On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Joe FergusonBoth types of receipt wrote: > Does anyone have performance info comparing floating point performance > on AMD K6 processors > with comparably-clocked P-IIs? How about Cyrix? > > Thanks, > > -- > Joe Ferguson ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov > Lockheed Martin Corp. > NESC Support, EPA-RTP -- NC Voice: (919)-541-3716 > > > From alain.coetmeur@icdc.caissedesdepots.fr Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:56:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 04:56:16 -0500 From: Coetmeur, Alain alain.coetmeur@icdc.caissedesdepots.fr Subject: your mail > PVFS does exactly this. See > http://ece.clemson.edu/parl/pvfs/index.html this system seems very interesting, but is there a mapping on MPI-IO. otherwise are there parallel file system on beowulf that are useable through MPI-IO ? another point. when doing RAID0 (no parity) stripping across disks the failure of one disk ruins all the file system. The technics used often is to use redundent (eg: RAID5) RAID filesystem on each node, as individual volume to contain stripes. is it possible with a beowulf. it would seems possible to use a RAID5 or mirroring driver to hold each stripe volume of the PVFS. > On Wed, 6 Jan 1999, Li Xiaoming wrote: > > I wonder if any one knows some Linux based parallel file > systems that > > support stipping a file across multiple nodes in a Beowulf > environment. -- Alain Coetmeur, Informatique-CDC DTA mailto:alain.coetmeur@icdc.CaisseDesDepots.fr From mkh100@york.ac.uk Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:14:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 05:14:59 -0500 From: Michael Hodgson mkh100@york.ac.uk Subject: FP on AMD K6 > Does anyone have performance info comparing floating point performance > on AMD K6 processors > with comparably-clocked P-IIs? How about Cyrix? > Whilst I'm not sure about K6-2 (100MHz bus etc.) the origional K6 was no match for a PII for our particular application (CHARMm), which I believe to be fpu intensive. If you can be more specific, eg. is it single or double precision that you are interested in then places like Toms harware page have some benchmarks. For the myoglobin 1000 steps of MD benchmark CHARMM K6 233 - 4.49 hrs PPro 210 - 1.98 hrs 300MHz PII - 1.48 hrs The other thing to consider is that certainly with the origional K6 it was not possible to put multiple processors on the same MB, as they did not support SMP. Dependant upon your application you might want to look at Celeron cpu's Particuarly the later ones with 128k full speed cache. They are: 1) cheap ( a 300a is around 60 ukp in the UK) 2) (overclockable if you are into that kind of thing) 3) and providing your application doesn't require oodles of cache, just as quick as a PII. For the same charmm benchmark. Celeron 300a - 1.49 hrs Celeron 300a (oc to 450MHz) - 0.99 hrs (compare this to an R10k time of 1.23hrs :) If you are not into the overclocking thing as seems to be the case with many readers of this list (lets not start that discussion again :) then the 400MHz chip has just been released and should give good performance without doing anything to it. Intel plan to release the Celeron in 100MHz FSB format some time soon. NOTE: Celerons like the origional K6 do not support SMP (well not without a LOT of fiddling), and so if it's multiple processors/board you are after then it still has to be PII's. Hope there may be something useful to someone in this rambling... -Michael From alain.coetmeur@icdc.caissedesdepots.fr Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:16:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:16:44 -0500 From: Coetmeur, Alain alain.coetmeur@icdc.caissedesdepots.fr Subject: CORBA, MPI, and Portland Group Compilers on a Beowulf To integrate (on our intranet, with java or MS GUI) our MPI application running on a beowulf cluster, we plan to use a Linux CORBA. however we plan also to use the Portland Group C++ compiler for performance. Who have experience in using a Corba with PGCC. Do we need to use a free CORBA with sources, or is there a commercial version compatible. Is PGCC really incompatible with gcc in C++ (I hope they are compatible in C)? does anybody had advice, experience or info? -- Alain Coetmeur, Informatique-CDC DTA mailto:alain.coetmeur@icdc.CaisseDesDepots.fr From jakob@ostenfeld.dk Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:24:11 -0500 From: jakob@ostenfeld.dk jakob@ostenfeld.dk Subject: CORBA, MPI, and Portland Group Compilers on a Beowulf On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 06:18:23PM +0100, Coetmeur, Alain wrote: ... > > however we plan also to use the Portland Group C++ > compiler for performance. > Who have experience in using a Corba with PGCC. > > Do we need to use a free CORBA with sources, > or is there a commercial version compatible. There are several ones out there. Mico (search and you will find) is C++. The Gnome project spawned a C implementation of Corba, ORBit, which I think is developed with performance in mind, unlike Mico. > Is PGCC really incompatible with gcc in C++ > (I hope they are compatible in C)? For clarity: PGCC = Pentium GCC EGCS = Experimental GCC PGroupCC = Portland Group CC PGroupCC is a C++ compiler. Eg. it can compile anything I've ever seen in ANSI C++. GCC cannot. GCC is not yet a full C++ compiler. However, both EGCS and PGCC versions 1.1.0 and above seem to also be fully ANSI C++ compatible. I tested the GCC, EGCS, PGCC, and PGroupCC compilers a while ago. Only plain GCC failed the C++ compliance test. Although I still need to redo the performance test, I believe performance of the PGroup compiler is comparable to EGCS or PGCC. EGCS and PGCC where usually very close, with PGCC only a little faster. PGroup was extremely slow, but that was because I overlooked a poorly documented compiler switch. With the right switches PGroupCC seems to generate code comparable to EGCS or PGCC. Another option for you is to use the PGCC or PGroupCC compiler and the KAI C++ to C translator. If you find that either PGroupCC or PGCC are not fully C++ compatible after all, KAI C++ most probably is. Links for the above: www.kai.com, www.pgroup.com, gcc.ml.org, egcs.cygnus.com ................................................................ : jakob@ostenfeld.dtu.dk : And I see the elder races, : :.........................: putrid forms of man : : Jakob Østergaard : See him rise and claim the earth, : : OZ9ABN : his downfall is at hand. : :.........................:............{Konkhra}...............: From fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:20:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:20:37 -0500 From: Doug Fortune fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Subject: more on Celeron SMP chip modification procedure Doug Fortune wrote: > Michael Hodgson wrote: > > > > Does anyone have performance info comparing floating point performance > > > on AMD K6 processors > > > with comparably-clocked P-IIs? How about Cyrix? > > > > > > For the myoglobin 1000 steps of MD benchmark CHARMM > > > > K6 233 - 4.49 hrs > > PPro 210 - 1.98 hrs > > 300MHz PII - 1.48 hrs > > > Dependant upon your application you might want to look at Celeron cpu's > > Particuarly the later ones with 128k full speed cache. > > They are: > > 1) cheap ( a 300a is around 60 ukp in the UK) > > 2) (overclockable if you are into that kind of thing) > > 3) and providing your application doesn't require oodles of cache, just as > > quick as a PII. > > > > For the same charmm benchmark. > > Celeron 300a - 1.49 hrs > > Celeron 300a (oc to 450MHz) - 0.99 hrs (compare this to an R10k time of > > 1.23hrs :) > > > > NOTE: Celerons like the origional K6 do not support SMP (well not without > > a LOT of fiddling), and so if it's multiple processors/board you are after > > then it still has to be PII's. > > Of course, there is the Celeron SMP modification, that variously allows you > to add a second cheap Celeron to your existing PII (dual motherboard of > course), > or go for two cheap Celerons off the bat. Duals said to be perfectly > reliable. > Many run much much faster. > > <> > > The original dual SMP Celeron modification article is at > > > > http://kikumaru.w-w.ne.jp/pc/celeron/index_e.html > > > > above abbreviated somewhat at: > >http://www.cpu-central.com/dualceleron/index-dc.html > > > > One of the guys on Linux-SMP is into overclocking his dual Celerons, > > you can see his story at > > > > http://www.psychosis.com/doa/ From colin@ddns.org Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:17:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 03:17:51 -0500 From: Colin Gan colin@ddns.org Subject: Scanning Accoustical Microscope on Beowulf cluster Hi, does anyone out there know or have any experience to set up Beowulf on Scanning Accoustical Microscope running volume rendering softwares on 3D images ? What will be the required softwares and hardwares ? Thanks in advance. -- Colin Gan Webworks Pte Ltd colin@webworks.com.sg 103A, Geylang Road Research Singapore 389212 http://www.webworks.com.sg Tel: (+65) 741-9526 Sales: sales@webworks.com.sg Fax: (+65) 749-3806 Tech : tech@webworks.com.sg Pgr: 9284-4823 Info : info@webworks.com.sg From makinb@ctc.com Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:35:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:35:07 -0500 From: Brian Makin makinb@ctc.com Subject: Scanning Accoustical Microscope on Beowulf cluster I do not know what a Snanning Accoustical Microscope is buy I do Virtual Reality and Volume Rendering. If you would like to explain your problem to me better I would be glad to render(pun intended) what assistance I could. Brian N. Makin makinb@ctc.com Colin Gan wrote: > Hi, does anyone out there know or have any experience to set up Beowulf on > Scanning Accoustical Microscope running volume rendering softwares on 3D > images ? What will be the required softwares and hardwares ? Thanks in > advance. > > -- > Colin Gan Webworks Pte Ltd > colin@webworks.com.sg 103A, Geylang Road > Research Singapore 389212 > > http://www.webworks.com.sg Tel: (+65) 741-9526 > Sales: sales@webworks.com.sg Fax: (+65) 749-3806 > Tech : tech@webworks.com.sg Pgr: 9284-4823 > Info : info@webworks.com.sg From cworley@altatech.com Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:59:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:59:38 -0500 From: Chris Worley cworley@altatech.com Subject: rack-mount cases Jeffrey Mark Siskind wrote: > > I'm looking to configure a 20 node (40 CPU) rack-mount compute-server cluster. > Ideally, it would fit in one rack. Ideally, it would be based on 2U cases. My > proposed configuration would be: Altatech ( http://www.altatech.com ) integrates Linux based clusters for both rack-mount (6U CPCI) and commodity (standard ATX motherboards in drawers bundled in 8 node clusters) enclosures. Would you be interested in that? I've not seen motherboards based on the BX chipset in a 2U format. The only motherboards I've seen that could fit in such a small area are the Corel netwinder boards based on the DEC strong-arm chip. There was a picture in last months Linux Journal of a ten-node hand-held home-brew beowulf cluster built by one of the Corel staff, shown at the Atlanta Linux Showcase. These chips don't do native floating point, but these motherboards have two built in 10/100 ethernet chipsets. Video, sound, etc are all built-in too. The whole cluster was powered by one ATX power supply. See: http://www.corelcomputer.com/products/linux/netwinder_dm.htm for a description (it doesn't show the Beowulf cluster, just the pre-packaged unit). > > - 440BX motherboard (100MHz front bus) > - dual 450MHz Pentium II with heat sink fans > - 512M ECC SDRAM (using 128M DIMMs) > - 100Mbit/s ethernet > - IBM 10G 5400rpm IDE UltraDMA disk drive > - 2U chassis > - 300W power supply > - no floppy, no CDROM, no SCSI card, no sound card, no video card Our systems do all of the above, except, they are not 2U (the commodity based cluster allows use of all PCI slots on a standard ATX motherboard). Also, we have one floppy per CPU. The floppy is an integral component, since it is part of the cloning system and allows disk-based and diskless booting. > > Ideally, the 3.5" disk drives would be mounted in caddys that fit in 5.25" > front-accessible bays so that I could easily swap them. I don't need hot-swap > capability. Just that I plan to install the OS by plugging the drives into a > caddy on another machine and doing a disk-to-disk copy. We have seemless cloning built into our systems. There is no need for disk swapping. > Can anybody give me feedback on any of the above vendors? We've (Alta Technology) been integrating Linux based clusters for over 1 year. Our largest systems are 128 processor (64 dual PII's) system (commodity enclosure) at Los Alamos and a 32 node AXP system (rack mount enclosure) in Japan. > > 2. I'm told that PCI cards can't fit in 2U cases. So I need a motherboard with > at least builtin 100Mb/sec ethernet. I'm know of motherboards that come with > various combinations of onboard ethernet, SCSI, video, and sound. I don't need > SCSI, video, and sound. Are there dual 440BX motherboards that have at least 4 > DIMM slots that have ethernet but no SCSI, video, and sound? What motherboard > do people recommend for a configuration like this? Our AXP systems have built-in ethernet, but they're 6U. Our commodity clusters support standard PCI boards, all slots available. > > 5. I plan to run without video. Which motherboards have BIOSes that can be > configured to run without video? I expect that from time to time (hopefully > infrequently) I will need to boot a node with a video card to change BIOS > settings. Ideally, the 2U case would be on sliders so that I could slide it > out and install a video card temporarily to change settings? Do any 2U cases > support this? If not, could I remove the 2U case from the rack, put it on a > table, open the top, and install a video card to change settings? Our commodity boards use the standard non-serial bios (these are meant to be commodity systems, so we have to use what's generally available), this is setup during our integration. We daisy-chain serial ports, which allows "back door" (terminal server style) access to any node to watch and control the boot process from the point when lilo starts. In our standard offering, only the root node has a video card. We also setup the system for root logins through the serial ports on all nodes. And, we setup the system so all boot I/O (including manual FSCK after a catastrophe) can be accomplished through the serial port. AXP boards do use a serial bios (milo), so the bios settings can be controlled via serial port access. In all configurations (rack and commodity), individual motherboards are on sliders. On the commodity systems, each motherboard has its own standard ATX power supply (in the same drawer as the motherboard), so can be "hot swapped" without bringing other nodes down. Hope this info helps, Chris From dfs@cacr.caltech.edu Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:05:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:05:17 -0500 From: Daniel F. Savarese dfs@cacr.caltech.edu Subject: CORBA, MPI, and Portland Group Compilers on a Beowulf >Do we need to use a free CORBA with sources, >or is there a commercial version compatible. I can't comment on Portland's C++, not having used it, the latest EGCS appears to finally be ANSI C++ compliant, incorporating namespaces, RTTI, and proper exception support. As for an open source ORB, I would recommend OmniORB, produced by Olivetti & Oracale Research. You can download it from http://www.orl.co.uk/omniORB/omniORB.html. It appears to be by far the fastest implementation. The only reason the GNOME project shunned it was because OmniORB does not support a C language binding (only C++) and they were dead set on avoiding C++ for reasons beyond my ken. Anyway, there are lots of ORBs to choose from. A decent starting point for finding more info on CORBA on Linux is http://linas.org/linux/corba.html daniel From joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:51:54 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:51:54 -0500 From: Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Subject: rack-mount cases > > > > I'm looking to configure a 20 node (40 CPU) rack-mount compute-server cluster. > > Ideally, it would fit in one rack. Ideally, it would be based on 2U cases. My > > proposed configuration would be: about the smallest bx board your going to be able to get would be the fic kb-6120. http://www.fic.com.tw/motherboards/KB-6120/KB-6120_intro.htm the nlx form factor doesn't lend itself dual boards. > > > > - 440BX motherboard (100MHz front bus) > > - dual 450MHz Pentium II with heat sink fans > > - 512M ECC SDRAM (using 128M DIMMs) > > - 100Mbit/s ethernet > > - IBM 10G 5400rpm IDE UltraDMA disk drive > > - 2U chassis > > - 300W power supply > > - no floppy, no CDROM, no SCSI card, no sound card, no video card A kind of wierd hack for a 2u dual p2 exists which uses a full size atx board, see telenet systems website. http://www.tesys.com/enclosures/rackmount_telepro_201.shtml which only gives you two pci slots the case with power supply is like $350. I really have my doubts as to how well a really large dual atx motherboards with built in ethernet like the tyan s1836dluan > > > > 2. I'm told that PCI cards can't fit in 2U cases. So I need a motherboard with > > at least builtin 100Mb/sec ethernet. I'm know of motherboards that come with > > various combinations of onboard ethernet, SCSI, video, and sound. I don't need > > SCSI, video, and sound. Are there dual 440BX motherboards that have at least 4 > > DIMM slots that have ethernet but no SCSI, video, and sound? What motherboard > > do people recommend for a configuration like this? they do if you put them sideways (in the fashion of nlx motherboard designs, risers of indiviual pci slots do exist so that you can mount one or two cards sideways on a standard atx board. keep in mind than many pc bioses won't allow the system to boot without a video card so you need to assure yourself that one you pick can't assuming you don't actually puta video card in the system. > > > > > 5. I plan to run without video. Which motherboards have BIOSes that can be > > configured to run without video? I expect that from time to time (hopefully > > infrequently) I will need to boot a node with a video card to change BIOS > > settings. Ideally, the 2U case would be on sliders so that I could slide it > > out and install a video card temporarily to change settings? Do any 2U cases > > support this? If not, could I remove the 2U case from the rack, put it on a > > table, open the top, and install a video card to change settings? joelja -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843. From brian@chpc.utah.edu Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:49 -0500 From: Brian Haymore brian@chpc.utah.edu Subject: rack-mount cases Chris Worley wrote: > > I've not seen motherboards based on the BX chipset in a 2U format. > > The only motherboards I've seen that could fit in such a small area are > the Corel netwinder boards based on the DEC strong-arm chip. There was > a picture in last months Linux Journal of a ten-node hand-held home-brew > beowulf cluster built by one of the Corel staff, shown at the Atlanta > Linux Showcase. These chips don't do native floating point, but these > motherboards have two built in 10/100 ethernet chipsets. Video, sound, > etc are all built-in too. The whole cluster was powered by one ATX power > supply. See: >From what I understand you can put an ASUS P2B or P2B-D motherboard in a 2U case. Unless I'm mistaken you can get some cards that plug into the pci slots that let you get up to two PCI cards horizontaly in a 2U case. -- Brian Haymore - Center for High Performance Computing, University of Utah Email: brian@chpc.utah.edu Fax: (801) 585-5366 Phone: (801) 585-1755 "I can please only one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either." --Anonymous From Ryan@carrera.com Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:38:46 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:38:46 -0500 From: Ryan Dunn Ryan@carrera.com Subject: 2U Rack-mount cases -- For Pent II Carrera Computers builds a 2U dual Pentium II system. You can even have SCSI, ENET and video, if you like. www.carrera.com Ryan Dunn From lucas@mercurio.econnect.com.br Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:56:16 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:56:16 -0500 From: Lucas do R. B. Brasilino da Silva lucas@mercurio.econnect.com.br Subject: FP on AMD K6 Hi Joe: K6, in overall performance, is faster than PII, but it FP unit is quite slow. Look at: http://www.gabrieltorres.com regards Lucas On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Joe FergusonBoth types of receipt wrote: > Does anyone have performance info comparing floating point performance > on AMD K6 processors > with comparably-clocked P-IIs? How about Cyrix? > > Thanks, > > -- > Joe Ferguson ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov > Lockheed Martin Corp. > NESC Support, EPA-RTP -- NC Voice: (919)-541-3716 > > > From diegert@cs.sandia.gov Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:47:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:47:37 -0500 From: Carl Diegert diegert@cs.sandia.gov Subject: 2U Rack-mount cases -- For Pent II > Subject: 2U Rack-mount cases -- For Pent II > Carrera Computers builds a 2U dual Pentium II > system. You can even have > SCSI, ENET and video, if you like. HP makes a 2xPII in 2U, too. No slides on this box, however. Check out the Compaq 1850R is you want to go 3U! The 1850R includes 100BT Ethernet, two channels of Ultra SCSI, an integrated display adapter, really _nice_ box and slides, etc., etc. We used 72 of these 1850R's to set the terabyte sort record last year, with 2 ea. 400 MHz P-II's in each, along with a second pair of SCSI controllers on a PCI card. From nav@pop.jaring.my Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:02:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:02:22 -0500 From: Khalid nav@pop.jaring.my Subject: Virtual Reality and Volume Rendering software on Beowulf cluster Dear Brian, Can you please inform me what software is available for Virtual Reality and Volume Rendering for a Beowulf cluster. Thanks in advance. Best regards. Khalid. From deadline@plogic.com Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:35:57 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:35:57 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: MPICH stalls I can run the the nas parallel benchmarks using LAM all day without a single problem. However, If I recompile using MPICH, I find that the performance is less (as expected) and every once and a while the program just stalls - it sometimes finishes, but often it just dies. I know this was talked about before. I have investigated this over the weekend and found it happens on a number of systems: kernel: 2.0.35 SMP and UP three different NICs (INtel, 21143, 21140) with both fort77 and g77 The systems are Supermicro MBs P6DBE and P6DLE 266 PIIs to 400 Mhz. Has anyone seen anything like this? We use LAM almost exclusively, but I think it is good to have MPICH working. Also it seems the MPICH web page is down. Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From deadline@plogic.com Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:31:51 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 07:31:51 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: MPICH stalls On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Douglas Eadline wrote: I also sent a copy of this to the MPICh group, here was their respoonse to the stalling problem: "We believe that this is caused by the LINUX TCP implementation chosing to close a connection when there is a lot of network traffic. This is acceptable TCP behavior - the defintion of "reliable" in TCP just isn't what you might think. To fix this, we'll need to recover from closed connections. We plan to make this fix at the same time that we redo the socket code in general, which should be later this year." Is there anyone who knows about the TCP implemetation that can commenton this? (Alan) Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From makinb@ctc.com Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:55:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:55:40 -0500 From: Brian Makin makinb@ctc.com Subject: Scanning Accoustical Microscope on Beowulf cluster Well, off the top of my head I do not know of any parallel volume rendering libraries. (although this would be a cool program, need lots of bandwidth, but I digress) There is a library called VTK (Visualization tool kit) That you could use to read in a volumetric dataset and do manipulations on it. ( I think it is at www.kitware.com ) If you have a SGI for a visualization node you could also run OpenGL volumizer. I am going to look through some things and see If I can find a free parallel volume rendering library. Brian N. Makin makinb@ctc.com Colin Gan wrote: > Hi, does anyone out there know or have any experience to set up Beowulf on > Scanning Accoustical Microscope running volume rendering softwares on 3D > images ? What will be the required softwares and hardwares ? Thanks in > advance. > > -- > Colin Gan Webworks Pte Ltd > colin@webworks.com.sg 103A, Geylang Road > Research Singapore 389212 > > http://www.webworks.com.sg Tel: (+65) 741-9526 > Sales: sales@webworks.com.sg Fax: (+65) 749-3806 > Tech : tech@webworks.com.sg Pgr: 9284-4823 > Info : info@webworks.com.sg From cec@ee.duke.edu Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:44:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:44:43 -0500 From: Christopher Cramer cec@ee.duke.edu Subject: MPI vs PVM Not to start any religious arguments, but can anyone point me to a benchmark suite that will compare MPI (any implementation) and PVM performance on a given system? Thanks in advance. -Chris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Cramer, PhD - "The world is my country, all mankind are my cec@ee.duke.edu - brethren, and to do good is my religion." -Thomas Paine From dpx@acl.lanl.gov Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:50:40 -0500 From: Dean Prichard dpx@acl.lanl.gov Subject: MPICH stalls We see the same thing, very reproducable w/ the more communication intensive NAS benchmarks like "CG". When in hangs you can look at the socket w/ netstat -eo and you will most likely find some that are retrying: peak04> netstat -eo ... tcp 0 28732 peak04.acl.lanl.go:1039 peak05.acl.lanl.go:1042 ESTABLISHED dpx on (94.83/9) peak05> netstat -eo tcp 27544 28992 peak05.acl.lanl.go:1042 peak04.acl.lanl.go:1039 ESTABLISHED dpx on (47.81/9) On Sun, 10 Jan 1999, Douglas Eadline wrote: > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:34:33 -0500 (EST) > From: Douglas Eadline > To: beowulf > Subject: MPICH stalls > > > I can run the the nas parallel benchmarks using LAM all day without > a single problem. However, If I recompile using MPICH, I find that > the performance is less (as expected) and every once and a while > the program just stalls - it sometimes finishes, but often it just dies. > > I know this was talked about before. I have investigated this over the > weekend and found it happens on a number of systems: > > kernel: 2.0.35 SMP and UP > three different NICs (INtel, 21143, 21140) > with both fort77 and g77 > The systems are Supermicro MBs P6DBE and P6DLE 266 PIIs to 400 Mhz. > > Has anyone seen anything like this? > > We use LAM almost exclusively, but I think it is good to have > MPICH working. > > > Also it seems the MPICH web page is down. > > > Doug > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 > 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 > Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > From rgb@phy.duke.edu Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:28:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:28:12 -0500 From: Robert G. Brown rgb@phy.duke.edu Subject: MPI vs PVM On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, Christopher Cramer wrote: > > Not to start any religious arguments, but can anyone point me to a > benchmark suite that will compare MPI (any implementation) and PVM > performance on a given system? I'm not sure that it has exactly what you want, but there is a very nice white paper on the netlib PVM site that compares PVM and MPI both philosophically and historically. I cannot recall for certain but it may also contain benchmarks. However, I don't think that there are strong performance reasons for or against either one -- I think that it is more a question of what kind of parallel program you are writing and whether it is to be run on a heterogeneous or homogeneous or dedicated environment. rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu From mdw@cs.berkeley.edu Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:16:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:16:27 -0500 From: Matt Welsh mdw@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: O'Reilly Linux Conference Call for Presenters Hello, I'm the program chair for the O'Reilly Linux Conference (August 21-24, 1999 in Monterey, California). We're looking for talks and tutorials from Linux developers and enthusiasts to present at this conference, and I'd really like to encourage folks on these mailing lists to contribute. All of the information is at http://conferences.oreilly.com or by e-mail at linuxextracts@oreilly.com. You can e-mail me if you have any questions or need other details. Thanks much! Matt Welsh, mdw@cs.berkeley.edu University of California, Berkeley +1 510 643 7566 (voice) --- Announcement and Call for Invited Talks Linux Conference August 21-24, 1999 Monterey, California http://conferences.oreilly.com Sponsored by O'Reilly & Associates Co-sponsored by Linux International (Confirm with maddog) Invited Talks Committee Matt Welsh, Chair, University of California, Berkeley Jon "Maddog" Hall, Linux International Andy Oram, O'Reilly & Associates Greg Hankins, Georgia Tech Russ Nelson, Crynwr Software Erik Troan, Red Hat Software Overview The O'Reilly Linux Conference will be held August 21-24, 1999 at the Monterey Conference Center in Monterey, California. There will be two days of tutorials followed by a two-day, multi-track conference including sessions for submitted invited presentations on practical and experimental uses of Linux; daily Q and A sessions with leading Linux developers, and evening breakaway sessions for special interest groups. Practical Presentations, Talks, and Panels This is not a traditional solicitation for academic papers. We seek presenters for talks and panels that demonstrate the diversity and strength of Linux. In the practical spirit of Linux, this means not just showing the clever and interesting ways you use Linux, but how your experience and code can help others. We're interested in large stories, small stories, silly hacks, case studies from the trenches ("Introducing Linux in an NT Shop"), philosophical perspectives ("Can Linux replace NT?") and even more traditional computer science pieces ("Distributed Computing with Linux"). We welcome presentations on every aspect of Linux, from new applications to case studies of Linux at work to panels. If you have a use for Linux that saves time, money, and headaches for your and your organization, we would like to hear about it. In short, we encourage submissions that highlight Linux's features and benefits. Some suggestions for talks follow --- but are not limited to these topics. If you've got an idea that will benefit the Linux community, please let us know. * Kernel development and device drivers * Networking and communications * Databases, data mining, and storage management * System and network administration * Programming environments (C, C++, Java, Perl, etc.) * Graphical User Interface toolkits (X11, GTK, KDE, GNOME, ...) * Ports to non-Intel architectures (SPARC, Alpha, PowerPC, ...) * World Wide Web and Internet applications * High-performance and parallel computing (Beowulf, Extreme Linux, ...) * Experiences with Linux: Using Linux for WWW, databases, large installations, enterprise applications, etc. * Philosophical musings on the future and role of Linux What, How, and Where to Submit Speakers should submit an abstract (250 words) and a detailed outline of their talk. The abstract and outline should describe what your talk will be about, and be specific about problems, solutions, and conclusions. Both the abstract and outline will be used together to evaluate talks. All submissions will be held in confidence. Talks that do not include both an abstract and an outline will not be considered. Important deadlines: Submissions: February 15, 1999 Acceptances: February 22, 1999 Camera-ready presentations: June 30, 1999 Each submission must include: 1. An initial page with the: --complete title of the presentation --name and affiliation of a speaker who will be the primary contact --that person's complete contact information including phone, fax, email, postal address, --The names of all other speakers with their affiliations and email addresses B. An abstract as detailed above C. A detailed outline Abstracts should be sent to linuxabstracts@oreilly.com. Email inquiries should be sent to linuxextracts@oreilly.com. Registration Information Complete conference and registration information will be available in mid-April. Keep checking the conference web site for the latest information: http://conferences.oreilly.com/ About O'Reilly & Associates Sponsor of Geekfest, the OpenSource Conference, O'Reilly & Associates is the leading publisher of books for UNIX, X, the Internet, and other open systems, as well as a pioneer in on-line publishing. We also publish the leading web server for Windows NT and Windows 95, and are defining new ways to develop and sell software on and over the Internet. For more information about O'Reilly & Associates, visit our web site: http://www.oreilly.com/. O'Reilly & Associates 101 Morris Street Sebastopol, California 95472 707/829-0515 800/998-9938 From jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:47:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:47:45 -0500 From: Jozef Skvarcek jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Subject: Hardware questions Hi, I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. Perhaps someone can help... 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? 2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? 3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports since I was able to found the most comprehensive info about it) that will be connected to our network (10BT), obviously, I do not want to flood the cluster with other then cluster's traffic. My understanding is that the switch will not propagate such packets. Am I right or do I need to put the cluster behind firewall? Thank you, Jozef Skvarcek jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu From Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:54:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 14:54:45 -0500 From: Bohn, Christopher A Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Subject: Hardware questions Good day, > -----Original Message----- > From: Jozef Skvarcek [SMTP:jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:52 PM > To: beowulf@cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: Hardware questions > [...] > 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? > Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive > answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? [Bohn, Christopher A.] I know from personal experience that late-model PCs will (but my old 8088 machine wouldn't). The nodes in our cluster have successfully booted without a keyboard or mouse plugged-in. We didn't try removing the video controller, though. > 2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) > on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. > more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? [Bohn, Christopher A.] "It depends on your application." That said, I would expect that, yes, you would see worse performance with the 400MHz Celeron than a 350MHz PII. The difference in processor speed would most likely be dominated by loss in memory performance. The 100MHz bus, obviously, is 50% faster than the 66MHz bus. So unless your problem fits entirely within cache, that's going to be a sever hamper on the 14% faster processor core in the 400MHz Celeron over the 350MHz PII. And, the L2 cache on the Celeron is only 128KB, as opposed to 512KB on the PII. That said, IIRC, the Celeron's L2 cache is clocked at full-speed instead of half-speed. > 3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am > thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports since I was able to found > the most comprehensive info about it) that will be connected to our > network (10BT), obviously, I do not want to flood the cluster with > other then cluster's traffic. My understanding is that the switch > will not propagate such packets. Am I right or do I need to put > the cluster behind firewall? [Bohn, Christopher A.] Dunno, but I doubt the switch would pass along any packets not directed to its subnet (assuming you configure it to "know" its subnet). Of course, if the switch even has to look at the packets from the outside world, that takes up some of the switch's aggregate capacity. Our solution was to have one of our front-ends connected to the outside world and to the switch, rather than connecting the switch to the outside world. Of course, this was also necessary since our connection to the outside world was 10B2, and neither our switch, nor the hub that preceded it, have a coax port. Hope that helps. Take care, cb *-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Capt Christopher A. Bohn Graduate Student, Electrical (digital) Engineering Air Force Institute of Technology Phone (937)255-3636 (DSN 785) AFIT/EN638 Lab x4606 Voicemail x6638 2950 P St, Box 4638 email Christopher.Bohn@afit.af.mil Wright-Patterson AFB OH 45433-7765 EngrBohn@aol.com http://members.aol.com/EngrBohn/ *-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > From fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 15:12:04 -0500 From: Doug Fortune fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Subject: Hardware questions / 'very small networks' Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would > like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. > 3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am > thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports. The networking might depend somewhat on the size of 'very small', and if no further expansion is envisioned. For myself, 'very small' means five dual PII boxes. ie One Master and Four Slaves (ten total cpu's) My networking is to consist of one Adaptec/Cogent 4 port 100 Mbit ethernet in the Master, and one 100Mbit card in each of the 4 Slaves. Thus the peak transfer rate to & from the Master is ~800 Mbits/sec, (theoretical) using duplex mode, four cross-over cables, no expensive switches, and no collisions (vs perhaps ~200 Mbits/sec max with a switch, reduced by any ethernet collisions). The cost is likely to be less than a switch, but delivering higher performance. For 'very small' Beowulfs, this could be extended to perhaps 4 quad port cards in the Master (for a total of 16 machines, or 8 channel-bonded at double the rate). Doug Fortune Calgary From joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:58:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:58:17 -0500 From: Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Subject: Hardware questions On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > Hi, > > I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would > like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. > Perhaps someone can help... > > 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? > Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive > answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? Most current board can be made to boot without kayboard and mouse. I'm not directly familiar with pc boards with serial bioses (ie that can boot without video card). another thing to note is that in my understanding not all bx or lx boards support a 6x clock double (6*66=396) so if you chose celeron 366 or 400 it may limit you choice of boards to one that does, such as the abit bm6 which has the socket 370 instead of socket 1: http://www.abit.com.tw/html/bm6.htm because even standard bx boards like abit bh6 top out at a 5.5x clock multiple. since celerons and pII's are clokc locked to the appropiate speed getting the right motherboard is a real issue with the new celerons... joelja > 2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) > on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. > more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? depends on how memory bound you're application is, your stream benchmark scores (per host) will probably be 55-70% of what it would be on 100mhz fsb. again that might or might not be an issue with your particular situation.. http://www.cs.virginia.edu/stream/ > 3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am > thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports since I was able to found > the most comprehensive info about it) that will be connected to our > network (10BT), obviously, I do not want to flood the cluster with > other then cluster's traffic. My understanding is that the switch > will not propagate such packets. Am I right or do I need to put > the cluster behind firewall? correct it wouldn't propigate, however in my experience (and our cluster) people typically have one node with two ethernet cards one connected to the outside world, the other connected to the switch and no packet forwarding so that they have a disconnected private network for all the nodes. that allows you to do things you wouldn't otherwise do on your regular network like use rsh, set-uid read/write nfs etc for the compastive security of a network which has no route to the outside world. joelja > Thank you, > > Jozef Skvarcek > jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843. From andy@meshplc.co.uk Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:28:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:28:48 -0500 From: Andy andy@meshplc.co.uk Subject: Hardware questions Very few motherboards that I have seen will boot without some video device or other. I have several Asus P2B based systems, and for those without the need for monitors, I just used old video cards (ISA 256K Trident, S3 PCI 1MB etc). It will boot quite happily without a keyboard though, as long as the bios is set to ignore k/b errors (this is true of almost all motherboards from 486 onward) Andy MESH Computers Webmaster andy@meshplc.co.uk From rich@freebsd.org Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:40:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:40:57 -0500 From: Murphey rich@freebsd.org Subject: Hardware questions >Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:51:52 -0500 (EST) >From: Jozef Skvarcek > >Hi, > >I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would >like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. >Perhaps someone can help... > >1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? >Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive >answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? I havne't tried the P2B, but the B2B-DS will indeed boot without keyboard, mouse and video card. However, I don't know whether there's a way to setup the bios without a vido card. I used a video card till the bios, etc., was configured. The rest of the setup can be handled by a serial console I believe. >2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) >on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. >more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? It makes a difference if the application's working set is small enough to fit in cache on the PII but not on the Celeron. If you've got a very tiny or a huge working set it might not make as much of a difference. >3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am >thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports since I was able to found >the most comprehensive info about it) that will be connected to our >network (10BT), obviously, I do not want to flood the cluster with >other then cluster's traffic. My understanding is that the switch >will not propagate such packets. Am I right or do I need to put >the cluster behind firewall? You could either configure the switch as a router or use one of the nodes as a router. Either would cut down on the traffic through the switch. It would also help elliminate collisions due to propagation of broadcast packets if I'm not mistaken. Rich Murphey >Thank you, > >Jozef Skvarcek >jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu > > > From qobi@research.nj.nec.com Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:44:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:44:17 -0500 From: Jeffrey Mark Siskind qobi@research.nj.nec.com Subject: TreadMarks 1. Does anybody know if TreadMarks runs under Linux? 2. If so, how does one obtain a copy? The Web page http://www.cs.rice.edu/~willy/TreadMarks/overview.html says that universities and non-profit institutions should contact tmk@cs.rice.edu. I sent email to that address and it bounced. And the Web page says that commercial institutions should contact ParallelTools L.L.C. 281-398-7035. But the like is stale and the phone number doesn't work. Jeff (http://www.neci.nj.nec.com/homepages/qobi) From deadline@plogic.com Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:53:02 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:53:02 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: Hardware questions / 'very small networks' On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Doug Fortune wrote: > For myself, 'very small' means five dual PII boxes. > ie One Master and Four Slaves (ten total cpu's) > > My networking is to consist of one Adaptec/Cogent 4 port 100 Mbit > ethernet in the Master, and one 100Mbit card in each of the 4 Slaves. > > Thus the peak transfer rate to & from the Master is ~800 Mbits/sec, > (theoretical) using duplex mode, four cross-over cables, no expensive > switches, and no collisions (vs perhaps ~200 Mbits/sec max with a > switch, > reduced by any ethernet collisions). > > The cost is likely to be less than a switch, but delivering higher > performance. If you have a master/slave algorithm. If the slaves need to talk to each other, you have to hop through the master and take a big performance hit. There are quite a few algorithms that require data exchanges. This arrangement would work quite well for the data flow model used in our BERT Fortran conversion tool. We also support other models that exchange data. What model is best? It all depends on the application, the CPU, compiler, and the communications network. Not an easy question to answer. > > For 'very small' Beowulfs, this could be extended to perhaps 4 quad > port cards in the Master (for a total of 16 machines, or 8 > channel-bonded at > double the rate). Can you really fill all 16 pipes at the same time? I know using U-net it has been done for 4, but I'm not sure if your could run 16 interfaces flat out through tcp/ip. You may have slaves waiting. Has anyone tried this? Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhpark@nurapt.kaist.ac.kr Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:57:43 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:57:43 -0500 From: Jeong Hwan Park jhpark@nurapt.kaist.ac.kr Subject: Hardware questions > > 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? > Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive > answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? ASUS p2b can do work without keyboard, mouse, video card. I think Asus p2b is best choice. From elaine@bann.com Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:10:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:10:19 -0500 From: Elaine Bann elaine@bann.com Subject: HOw do I get off this mailing list? I would really like to get off this mailing list. How do I go about doing that? -elaine From efinch@cais.com Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:35:52 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:35:52 -0500 From: Ed Finch efinch@cais.com Subject: [Fwd: Please help: DHCP, Red Hat 5.2 and Kickstart] Greetings! I'm trying to use Red Hat 5.2's Kickstart process to build my Beowulf cluster. DHCP seems to negotiate sucesssfully, but I can't an alternate kickstart filename passed to the client. In fact, the client always looks for 10.0.0.200:/kickstart /etc/dhcpd.conf looks like this: default-lease-time 300; option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0; option broadcast-address 10.0.0.255; option routers 10.0.0.200; option domain-name-servers 10.0.0.200; option domain-name "hitc.com"; filename "/redhat-5.2/cdrom/dhcp.kickstart"; subnet 10.0.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 { range 10.0.0.1 10.0.0.100; } and /redhat-5.2/cdrom/dhcp.kickstart looks like: leng en network --bootproto dhcp nfs --server 10.0.0.200 --dir /redhat-5.2 keyboard us zerombr yes clearpart --all part /boot --size 10 part swap --size 127 part / --size 1 --grow timezone US/Eastern rootpw --iscrypted XwOmhs6zTSKok lilo %packages @ Base @ Networked Workstation @ C Development @ Development Libraries @ C++ Development Beowulf is waiting - please help! :-) Best regards, Ed Q: Why do PCs have a reset button on the front? A: Because they are expected to run Microsoft operating systems. 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Visit http://www.worldcasino.mk.ua for all the details. Enjoy great casino games, including BlackJack, Roulette, Craps, Slots, Video Poker and more and get $50.00 just for trying it out. Thank for bearing with us. Please replay with subject "remove" to be removed from this mailing list From efinch@cais.com Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:36:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 21:36:15 -0500 From: Ed Finch efinch@cais.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Please help: DHCP, Red Hat 5.2 and Kickstart] Ed Finch (efinch@yellow.vais.net) wrote: : Greetings! : I'm trying to use Red Hat 5.2's Kickstart process to build : my Beowulf cluster. DHCP seems to negotiate sucesssfully, but : I can't an alternate kickstart filename passed to the client. : In fact, the client always looks for 10.0.0.200:/kickstart Oh yeah: I'm using these DHCP rpms from the 5.2 set, dhcpcd-0.70-2 dhcp-2.0b1pl6-2 and the filesystem is exported: ls -l /net/beowulf/redhat-5.2/cdrom/dhcp.kickstart -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 337 Jan 8 19:06 dhcp.kickstart -- Ed Q: Why do PCs have a reset button on the front? A: Because they are expected to run Microsoft operating systems. From rgb@phy.duke.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:00:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:00:28 -0500 From: Robert G. Brown rgb@phy.duke.edu Subject: Hardware questions On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > Hi, > > I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would > like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. > Perhaps someone can help... > > 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? > Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive > answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? Without keyboard and mouse, certainly. I've never tried to boot one without a video card because (at maybe $30) they are so cheap and useful, but I understand that it is possible. Perhaps somebody else can verify this. > 2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) > on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. > more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? The Celeron is a PII with smaller cache. It makes up for the smaller cache to some extent by virtue of the cache being faster. Although in principle the memory bus should matter, for many programs you won't see any difference. I'd even say "most" programs, or "nearly all" programs, but on this list I know that there are people for whom it matters very much and they'll jump on me;-). In my programs (the only ones I really care about:-) I see very little besides CPU clock speed scaling from 200 MHz Pentium Pros running EDO memory through to 450 MHz PII's running registered PC100 SDRAM, and my 300 MHz Celeron system benchmarks out to with a hair of my 300 MHz PIIs. If your application is KNOWN to be memory I/O bound is the right size for cache size/stride to be right for a real PII but wrong for a Celeron, it will matter. The safest thing to do (if you can afford it) is to get one of each and benchmark YOUR code on it. You can probably get by just fine with the Celeron and save a lot of money. If not, you can either pull the Celeron and replace it with a PII (and write off the cost to development) or use the system for your beowulf's "head". Or something. I'm assuming that you're getting a real 400 MHz Celeron, btw, although reportedly the Celeron 300 overclocks to 400+ MHz with nearly 100% reliability. The "nearly 100%" is OK for games but worrisome for calculations containing maybe 10^18 floating point operations, to me at least. > 3. The cluster nodes will be hooked to a fast ethernet switch (I am > thinking about SMC EZSwitch 100, 8ports since I was able to found > the most comprehensive info about it) that will be connected to our > network (10BT), obviously, I do not want to flood the cluster with > other then cluster's traffic. My understanding is that the switch > will not propagate such packets. Am I right or do I need to put > the cluster behind firewall? The switch will not propagate the internal traffic between beowulf nodes and the rest of the network - a switch only forwards packets to a known host to the port on which the known host resides and allows symmetric communications between all nodes. If this concerns you, though, there are other solutions and topologies available. For example, I wouldn't call it a "firewall" but it is very easy to put an extra NIC in the system you want to call your "head" node, attach it to your department LAN, and use the switch only "inside" between nodes with no direct link to the LAN at all. This approach conserves IP numbers -- you can give all the internal hosts IP numbers from 192.168.x.x, for example, which is a block of numbers intended for use in "private internal networks" that are guaranteed by a RFC not to pass a router, and access nodes by logging into the head node first. Or, of course, you can give the nodes real IP numbers from your space and make the head into a real (but small) router so that you can login to each node from anywhere on your LAN (while internode traffic remains strictly local). You can also skip the switch altogether and put multiple NICs in each host and connect them in a hypercube, and there are undoubtedly still more possibilities. Some will make more sense than others (either economically or in terms of performance) -- only after the task to be run on the system is well understood will a given topology be "obviously" the best price performer. It's hard to go wrong with a simple switched network, though -- I'm not trying to talk you out of a switch if you can afford it. rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu From masud@googgun.com Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:45:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 00:45:53 -0500 From: Ahmed Masud masud@googgun.com Subject: HOw do I get off this mailing list? On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, Elaine Bann wrote: > I would really like to get off this mailing list. How do I go about doing > that? > -elaine Send email to majordomo@cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov to get help on how to get off the mailing list. You have to send a message to majordomo with the correct command (i believe it's "unsubscribe") and do it from the email address that you actually subscribed to the list from. Hope this helps Ahmed From daniel.pfenniger@obs.unige.ch Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:37:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:37:03 -0500 From: PFENNIGER Daniel daniel.pfenniger@obs.unige.ch Subject: Hardware questions Andy wrote: > > Very few motherboards that I have seen will boot without some video device > or other. I have several Asus P2B based systems, and for those without the > need for monitors, I just used old video cards (ISA 256K Trident, S3 PCI > 1MB etc). > > It will boot quite happily without a keyboard though, as long as the bios > is set to ignore k/b errors (this is true of almost all motherboards from > 486 onward) With an installed Linux on an Asus P2B board one can also remove the video card, beside the keyboard and the mouse. The system reboots correctly (I tried). It can then be reached by the network. Of course in case of problem it is more convenient to have a video screen, but much could be done through a serial console (an option in the Linux kernel install). Sparing on cheap video cards was however considered not worth for our cluster. Daniel Pfenniger From mark@rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:14:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:14:38 -0500 From: Mark Gebhardt mark@rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za Subject: PVM and SMP/non-SMP Linux] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0BA20AABAB41085E42C7C424 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I am running PVM3.4.beta7 on Redhat 5.2 Linux. The hardware I am using consists of 7 single-CPU PIIs and one dual-processor PII (this machine has Linux recompiled for SMP). If I run PVM apps on the dual processor machine by itself, I find that both processors get used, but if I include another machine in the VM, the CPU utilisation (via top) on the parallel machine is approx. the same as on the single procesor machine. Does anyone know why this happens and if there is any way of using the dual-processor machine more fully? Thanks Mark -- Mark Gebhardt Radar Remote Sensing Group University of Cape Town South Africa tel: +27 21 6503756 email: mark@rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za www: http://rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za --------------0BA20AABAB41085E42C7C424 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <3699DDD3.5ED5A6EA@rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:14:38 -0500 From: Mark Gebhardt Organization: RRSG X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.parallel.pvm Subject: PVM and SMP/non-SMP Linux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I am running PVM3.4.beta7 on Redhat 5.2 Linux. The hardware I am using consists of 7 single-CPU PIIs and one dual-processor PII (this machine has Linux recompiled for SMP). If I run PVM apps on the dual processor machine by itself, I find that both processors get used, but if I include another machine in the VM, the CPU utilisation (via top) on the parallel machine is approx. the same as on the single procesor machine. Does anyone know why this happens and if there is any way of using the dual-processor machine more fully? Thanks Mark --------------0BA20AABAB41085E42C7C424-- From mprinkey@champion.org Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:44:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 05:44:19 -0500 From: Michael Prinkey mprinkey@champion.org Subject: Hardware questions I can't add anything to further answer these questions, but they do raise another issue. Several months ago, I think one of the BIOS vendors (Award?) was toying with the idea of serial support. Does any current x86 BIOS include serial support? I just set up several headless Alpha systems using the serial console to AlphaBIOS, and I was quite impressed with the ability to change low-level settings without dragging a monitor and keyboard to each system. Cheers, Mike Prinkey CFD Group West Virginia University ---------- > From: Jozef Skvarcek > To: beowulf@cesdis1.gsfc.nasa.gov > Subject: Hardware questions > Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 1:51 PM > > Hi, > > I am going to setup very small cluster for our department and I would > like to clarify few problems before we start ordering hardware. > Perhaps someone can help... > > 1. Will a machine without keyboard, mouse and video card boot? > Let's assume it has Asus P2B (P2L resp.) motherboard. If the positive > answer depends on the MB or BIOS can you suggest type? From whately@cos.ufrj.br Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:23:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 07:23:07 -0500 From: Lauro Whately whately@cos.ufrj.br Subject: TreadMarks Yes, TreadMarks runs under linux. We've been using it with linux on intel and ppc machines. We bought one license from Rice some years ago. I think you should try the people in the university anyway. -- Lauro Whately Parallel Computing Lab. / COPPE Federal University of Rio de Janeiro Brazil ===================================== "A distributed system is one on which I cannot get any work done, because a machine I have never heard of has crashed." -- Leslie Lamport From mkh100@york.ac.uk Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:24:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:24:31 -0500 From: Michael Hodgson mkh100@york.ac.uk Subject: Hardware questions > > > 2. If we change PII 400MHz (100MHz bus) to Celeron 400MHz (66MHz bus) > > on the worker nodes, will the performace drop `dramatically' i.e. > > more than if changing PII 400 to PII 350 (100MHz bus)? > [Bohn, Christopher A.] "It depends on your application." That said, I > would expect that, yes, you would see worse performance with the 400MHz > Celeron than a 350MHz PII. The difference in processor speed would most > likely be dominated by loss in memory performance. The 100MHz bus, > obviously, is 50% faster than the 66MHz bus. So unless your problem fits > entirely within cache, that's going to be a sever hamper on the 14% faster > processor core in the 400MHz Celeron over the 350MHz PII. And, the L2 cache > on the Celeron is only 128KB, as opposed to 512KB on the PII. That said, > IIRC, the Celeron's L2 cache is clocked at full-speed instead of half-speed. > All true and well made points. But why not go for the best of both worlds? The Celeron core is the same as that of a PII and is perfectly happy at 100Mhz. Personally I'd recomend buying 300a's and running them at 4.5x100 (450MHz they do this without getting any hotter btw). You then gain all the advantages of the faster front side bus, but you also gain in the amaisingly cheap price of these CPU's. -Michael From efinch@cais.com Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:20:58 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:20:58 -0500 From: Ed Finch efinch@cais.com Subject: [Fwd: Exciting New Casino] Ed Finch spammed Beowulf with: > > Dear Sir or Madam, > Please excuse this unsolicted email, but we thought you like to know > that one of the nets premiere on-line casinos is giving away $50.00 to > every customer who signs up now. Visit http://www.worldcasino.mk.ua > for all the details. Enjoy great casino games, including BlackJack, > Roulette, Craps, Slots, Video Poker and more and get $50.00 just for > trying it out. Ugh. Please excuse my fat-fingering. I meant to send this to my local "abuse" account. Best regards, Ed -- Q: Why do PCs have a reset button on the front? A: Because they are expected to run Microsoft operating systems. From rgb@phy.duke.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:01:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:01:51 -0500 From: Robert G. Brown rgb@phy.duke.edu Subject: Hardware questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, PFENNIGER Daniel wrote: > Andy wrote: > > > > Very few motherboards that I have seen will boot without some video device > > or other. I have several Asus P2B based systems, and for those without the > > need for monitors, I just used old video cards (ISA 256K Trident, S3 PCI > > 1MB etc). > > > > It will boot quite happily without a keyboard though, as long as the bios > > is set to ignore k/b errors (this is true of almost all motherboards from > > 486 onward) > > With an installed Linux on an Asus P2B board one can also remove the video card, > beside the keyboard and the mouse. The system reboots correctly (I tried). > It can then be reached by the network. Of course in case of problem it is > more convenient to have a video screen, but much could be done through a serial > console > (an option in the Linux kernel install). Sparing on cheap video cards was > however > considered not worth for our cluster. This is still good to know. I have diskless boot stuff setup that can very reliably bring a system up to where I have network login capability and scripts to complete a diskful install over the net, and in a beowulf (where the systems are really intended to be headless a priori) not having a video card can save a PCI slot (allowing more network connections) and some money (allowing more network connections at constant cost). A video card is indeed useful for debugging hardware/driver problems, but if one has a large collection of identical hardware, one can probably put a graphics card in just one to get the kernel configuration debugged, and then remove it and install the rest totally stripped. I actually have onboard SVGA on a lot of the systems I've tinkered with diskless, so I've never had occasion to test this, but on my next round of major purchases I'll definitely test a prototype videoless. rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu From hahn@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:32:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 10:32:42 -0500 From: Mark Hahn hahn@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca Subject: Hardware questions > at 4.5x100 (450MHz they do this without getting any hotter btw). You then > gain all the advantages of the faster front side bus, but you also gain in > the amaisingly cheap price of these CPU's. and will never know whether your processor computes correctly. consider the untestability of just FMUL: 128 bits of operand... overclocking is strictly for low-loss applications. I doubt that many Beowulfers consider their work low-loss... From Doug.Hughes@Eng.Auburn.EDU Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:02:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:02:05 -0500 From: Doug Hughes Doug.Hughes@Eng.Auburn.EDU Subject: redhat, kernel, alpha We're recently acquired 3 Microway Alphas on loan as part of a plan to establish a 40 node beowulf cluster for physics research under an NSF grant. They came equipped with redhat 5.2 with 2.0.35. I notice that the beowulf home page has RPM source for kernel-2.0.30-3.src.rpm. So, it looks like I have a few possible options 1) downgrade the kernel to 2.0.30-3 2) find out if the above kernel patches will work with 2.0.35 (doubted, but possible I suppose if the mods are relatively minor) 3) find out if some kind soul has diffs or patches for 2.0.35 kernel and would care to make them available. Doug Hughes Engineering Network Services doug@eng.auburn.edu Auburn University From allanb@sparta.apmaths.uwo.ca Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:31:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:31:44 -0500 From: Allan B MacIsaac allanb@sparta.apmaths.uwo.ca Subject: redhat, kernel, alpha On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Doug Hughes wrote: > > We're recently acquired 3 Microway Alphas on loan as part of a plan > to establish a 40 node beowulf cluster for physics research under > an NSF grant. They came equipped with redhat 5.2 with 2.0.35. > I notice that the beowulf home page has RPM source for kernel-2.0.30-3.src.rpm. > So, it looks like I have a few possible options > 1) downgrade the kernel to 2.0.30-3 > 2) find out if the above kernel patches will work with 2.0.35 (doubted, but > possible I suppose if the mods are relatively minor) > 3) find out if some kind soul has diffs or patches for 2.0.35 kernel and > would care to make them available. > > Doug Hughes Engineering Network Services > doug@eng.auburn.edu Auburn University > Grab the development kernel v2.2pre(6 or 7). Generally, they're just as stable on the alpha as the stable branch of the kernel, faster, and no "Alpha" patches. At the moment we're running Linux dp1.deeppurple.cluster 2.2.0-pre4-ac4 #1 Just my two cents (3 cents Canadian), A.B. A.B. -- Dr. Allan B. MacIsaac There once was an old man from Esser, Dept. of Applied Math Whose knowledge grew lesser and lesser. University of Western Ontario It at last grew so small, London, Ontario, Canada That he knew nothing at all, N6A 5B7 And now he's a College Professor. From deadline@plogic.com Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:42:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:42:01 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: redhat, kernel, alpha On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Doug Hughes wrote: > > We're recently acquired 3 Microway Alphas on loan as part of a plan > to establish a 40 node beowulf cluster for physics research under > an NSF grant. They came equipped with redhat 5.2 with 2.0.35. > I notice that the beowulf home page has RPM source for kernel-2.0.30-3.src.rpm. > So, it looks like I have a few possible options > 1) downgrade the kernel to 2.0.30-3 > 2) find out if the above kernel patches will work with 2.0.35 (doubted, but > possible I suppose if the mods are relatively minor) > 3) find out if some kind soul has diffs or patches for 2.0.35 kernel and > would care to make them available. You can use 2.0.35. There is nothing special about the Beowulf kernel other than the channel bonding patch (and some other minor things). Download PVM or LAM-MPI and you are in business. If you want to do channel bonding, let me know I have dev.c for 2.0.35 that supports channel bonding. Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From lindahl@cs.virginia.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:06:25 -0500 From: Greg Lindahl lindahl@cs.virginia.edu Subject: redhat, kernel, alpha > We're recently acquired 3 Microway Alphas on loan as part of a plan > to establish a 40 node beowulf cluster for physics research under > an NSF grant. They came equipped with redhat 5.2 with 2.0.35. > I notice that the beowulf home page has RPM source for kernel-2.0.30-3.src.rpm. > So, it looks like I have a few possible options 4) Ignore the kernel patches, which just provide a global PID space, and/or address bugs which were long fixed and aren't relelvant for single-cpu alphas anyway. If you're running IDE drives, you'll need to use 2.2. Be sure to get onto axplist@redhat.com and get up to speed on Alpha Linux issues. -- greg From mkh100@york.ac.uk Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:03:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:03:42 -0500 From: Michael Hodgson mkh100@york.ac.uk Subject: Hardware questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mark Hahn wrote: > > at 4.5x100 (450MHz they do this without getting any hotter btw). You then > > gain all the advantages of the faster front side bus, but you also gain in > > the amaisingly cheap price of these CPU's. > > and will never know whether your processor computes correctly. consider > the untestability of just FMUL: 128 bits of operand... > > overclocking is strictly for low-loss applications. I doubt that many > Beowulfers consider their work low-loss... > > All I can say is that it is well worth testing your particular application to see if this is indeed a problem. Under Charmm for example we have been running with overclocked chips for over a year now. I am often forced to repeat runs, benchmarks etc. and I can honestly say that there has never, not once, been any deviation in the energy, or any other feature of the output file aside from the date and the elapsed time... If an application can run over 4 overclocked processers for 40days of continual number crunching and result in no deviation, then I would say that the processor is infact making NO more errors than a normal run. It may be that for some applications this in not the case... But give it a go... Run a test case 100 times and see if you get the same answer every time... If you do chances are the overclocking has not made any differance. Gamers often go for as much overclocking as possible and this is why overclocking has a bad name.. Be moderate in your overclocking and you'll never know... The chips do come out of the same factory afterall :) I would put good money on you finding the same core in some Xeon processors as you find in a Celeron. If overclocking doesn't work then why is it that intel feel the need to clock-lock (and soon bus-lock) their processors? Once I would have agreed with Mark, but just occasionally a CPU comes along that really is too good to be true. The Pentium 166MMX (same as a 200) was one, the PPro 166 was one and now there is the celeron... Overclocking anything else just doesn't give you the same gain, but these processors fly. I do not consider my work low-loss, but neither do I consider the chance to get work done in half the time a trivial issue. To those people out there who do not have oodles of cash to throw at there Beocub, I would encourage you to do a bit of investigation for yourself, rather than listening to the scare-mongering that companies like intel would love to propergate.... There are sadly those people that are just to eager to listen and instead throw good money away. -Michael If any one has any comments on these issues then I would suggest that they are taken up personally rather than futher cluttering the list, as it really is not on subject... From lindahl@cs.virginia.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:04:11 -0500 From: Greg Lindahl lindahl@cs.virginia.edu Subject: Hardware questions > All I can say is that it is well worth testing your particular application > to see if this is indeed a problem. Do we have to repeat this religious war every week? How do you _know_ that the run you publish doesn't have a problem, even if you repeat it and get the same answer? > If an application can run over 4 overclocked processers for 40days of > continual number crunching and result in no deviation, then I would say > that the processor is infact making NO more errors than a normal run. I would disagree, and I wouldn't put my name on that paper, nor fly in that airplane. > If any one has any comments on these issues then I would suggest that they > are taken up personally rather than futher cluttering the list, as it > really is not on subject... Just like last time it came up, and the time before, and the time before, and the time before, and... -- g From kragen@pobox.com Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:31:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:31:49 -0500 From: Kragen Sitaker kragen@pobox.com Subject: Hardware questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Michael Hodgson wrote: > All I can say is that it is well worth testing your particular application > to see if this is indeed a problem. Under Charmm for example we have been > running with overclocked chips for over a year now. I am often forced to > repeat runs, benchmarks etc. and I can honestly say that there has never, > not once, been any deviation in the energy, or any other feature of the > output file aside from the date and the elapsed time... > > If an application can run over 4 overclocked processers for 40days of > continual number crunching and result in no deviation, then I would say > that the processor is infact making NO more errors than a normal run. Possibly. Or possibly it's making the same errors every time. Computer hardware failures are often systematic and very input-dependent. > It may be that for some applications this in not the case... But give it a > go... Run a test case 100 times and see if you get the same answer every > time... If you do chances are the overclocking has not made any > differance. Even assuming that getting the same answer 100 times in a row means that that answer is correct, it may still be the case that your overclocking will cause errors for programs other than your test case. > Gamers often go for as much overclocking as possible and this > is why overclocking has a bad name.. Be moderate in your overclocking and > you'll never know... The chips do come out of the same factory afterall > :) And for some of them, the reason they are rated for lower clock speeds is that they don't function reliably at higher clock speeds. > I would put good money on you finding the same core in some Xeon > processors as you find in a Celeron. If overclocking doesn't work then > why is it that intel feel the need to clock-lock (and soon bus-lock) their > processors? My guess is that it's because other companies were reselling Intel chips rebadged for higher clock rates, resulting in people getting incorrect answers and blaming Intel for shipping faulty chips. > If any one has any comments on these issues then I would suggest that they > are taken up personally rather than futher cluttering the list, as it > really is not on subject... Of course -- and your post was, right? :) -- Kragen Sitaker Computers are the tools of the devil. It is as simple as that. There is no monotheism strong enough that it cannot be shaken by Unix or any Microsoft product. The devil is real. He lives inside C programs. -- philg@mit.edu From deadline@plogic.com Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:47:26 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: Hardware questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Greg Lindahl wrote: > > All I can say is that it is well worth testing your particular application > > to see if this is indeed a problem. > > Do we have to repeat this religious war every week? Greg is right. Please let's not repeat this weekly (or so it seems) overclocking "discussion". You build your own bed and you sleep in it. Good night. Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rgb@phy.duke.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:13:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:13:07 -0500 From: Robert G. Brown rgb@phy.duke.edu Subject: [Fwd: Exciting New Casino] On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Ed Finch wrote: > Ed Finch spammed Beowulf with: > > > > Dear Sir or Madam, > > Please excuse this unsolicted email, but we thought you like to know > > that one of the nets premiere on-line casinos is giving away $50.00 to > > every customer who signs up now. Visit http://www.worldcasino.mk.ua > > for all the details. Enjoy great casino games, including BlackJack, > > Roulette, Craps, Slots, Video Poker and more and get $50.00 just for > > trying it out. > > Ugh. Please excuse my fat-fingering. I meant to send this to my > local "abuse" account. Awww, I was excited by the offer. It was right up there with the live nude girls offer we had a few months ago. I confess, though (knowing you to be a sane and responsible list member) that I was wondering -- what's the connection? Are they running the website on a beowulf? Has Ed figured out how to beat BlackJack online with his beowulf? Is Ed suggesting that if we all get "$50 for free" from this site we can buy a hell of a lot of beer at our next meeting? Gotta be a connection here somewhere... ;-) rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu From rgb@phy.duke.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:50 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:00:50 -0500 From: Robert G. Brown rgb@phy.duke.edu Subject: Hardware questions On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Michael Hodgson wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Mark Hahn wrote: .. > > and will never know whether your processor computes correctly. consider > > the untestability of just FMUL: 128 bits of operand... > > > > overclocking is strictly for low-loss applications. I doubt that many > > Beowulfers consider their work low-loss... > > > > > > All I can say is that it is well worth testing your particular application > to see if this is indeed a problem. Under Charmm for example we have been > running with overclocked chips for over a year now. I am often forced to ... > propergate.... There are sadly those people that are just to eager to > listen and instead throw good money away. Old discussion, long since in the list archives. Nobody ever convinces anybody and it wastes bandwidth (I know, I'm a major sinner in this regard in the past myself:-). However, I've seen the light and been converted to a new state of tolerance and ecumenicality. That is, I've resolved to simply ignore the issue (after this one last time). I would ASK that advocates of overclocking at least put a routine YMMV-type disclaimer in; all too often it is presented as a "sure thing" when there is clear evidence that it isn't -- people certainly have gotten burned in the past and will in the future (until Intel arranges their chips so they cannot be overclocked in the next few months). People do YMMV for everything else, don't see why overclocking should be an obsession (excuse me, I meant exception;-). In exchange for this minor concession, perhaps the rest of us can ALL ignore the occurrence of the word "overclocking" in a note without doing the hornet thing or cranking up the laser blaster. If somebody is making truly egregious claims in an open letter to a neophyte, I suppose one could always respond to their claims directly to said neophyte offline and avoid the usual jihad. Om Shanti, rgb Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:rgb@phy.duke.edu From jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:18:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:18:08 -0500 From: Jozef Skvarcek jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Subject: Hardware questions, One more Thank you to all who responded to my previous questions. I think I will send back some conclusions but first I would like to ask: 1. Is it worth to get ECC memory? I don't remember seeing any problem (crashed computer, application, garbled data...) which could be related to erroreous memory using a few different types on non-brand non-ECC DRAM/EDO/SDRAM. Also, I guess the ECC RAM is slower since it probably employs an error checking algorithm. Jozef Skvarcek jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu From Drake.Diedrich@anu.edu.au Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:41:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:41:38 -0500 From: Drake Diedrich Drake.Diedrich@anu.edu.au Subject: PVM and SMP/non-SMP Linux] On Wed, Jan 13, 1999 at 12:15:31PM +0200, Mark Gebhardt wrote: > Hi all > > I am running PVM3.4.beta7 on Redhat 5.2 Linux. The hardware I am using > consists of 7 single-CPU PIIs and one dual-processor PII (this machine > has Linux recompiled for SMP). > > If I run PVM apps on the dual processor machine by itself, I find that > both processors get used, but if I include another machine in the VM, > the CPU utilisation (via top) on the parallel machine is approx. the > same as on the single procesor machine. > > Does anyone know why this happens and if there is any way of using the > dual-processor machine more fully? > > Thanks > > Mark Your program needs to start two processes on the dual CPU machine. PVM doesn't report number of processors to your program, so either you need to supply this information or your program needs to get it elsewhere. One possibility would be to hide this in the SPEED parameter (sp=1,2,...) of the hostfile. If the program is pvmpov, use "+N pvm_hosts=host1,host2,host3,host3,..." with your dual CPU machine listed twice. Running two processes on every machine is also possible (+NT2) but consumes more memory and has a higher context switching overhead. -Drake From kerr@wizard.net Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:04:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:04:24 -0500 From: Kerr kerr@wizard.net Subject: Hardware questions, One more On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > Thank you to all who responded to my previous questions. > I think I will send back some conclusions but first I would like > to ask: > > 1. Is it worth to get ECC memory? I don't remember seeing any problem > (crashed computer, application, garbled data...) which could be related > to erroreous memory using a few different types on non-brand non-ECC > DRAM/EDO/SDRAM. Also, I guess the ECC RAM is slower since it probably > employs an error checking algorithm. This depends on your comfort level at having possibly strange results. Bad memory *does* exist, and the chances of you having bad memory increases the more that you have. If 99.9% of DIMM's are good, your 16-box cluster has a 1 in 32 chance of having a bad DIMM (2 per box). That's pretty high, if you ask me. And you may never find out -- until publish bogus results and get laughed at by the scientific community. :) OTOH, it sure is pricy. Shani From mike@wire.net.au Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:13:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:13:59 -0500 From: Michael Sexton mike@wire.net.au Subject: Oracle 8.0.5 on a beowulf cluster Hi, I'm very new to beowulf but have had quite a bit of experience with oracle ! Im wondering if anyone has set up Oracle on a beowulf cluster ? Has it been a success or failure ? Any architecture do's or don'ts or hints ? Any input would be appreciated. Mike From deadline@plogic.com Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:22:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:22:36 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: Oracle 8.0.5 on a beowulf cluster On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Michael Sexton wrote: > Hi, > > I'm very new to beowulf but have had quite a bit of experience with oracle ! > > Im wondering if anyone has set up Oracle on a beowulf cluster ? If you are implying has Oracle released a parallel version for Linux clusters, I think the answer is no. Otherwise, you can run Oracle on one node. > Has it been a success or failure ? > Any architecture do's or don'ts or hints ? > > Any input would be appreciated. Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:39:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:39:25 -0500 From: Joe Ferguson ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Subject: Hardware questions, One more Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > > Thank you to all who responded to my previous questions. > I think I will send back some conclusions but first I would like > to ask: > > 1. Is it worth to get ECC memory? I don't remember seeing any problem > (crashed computer, application, garbled data...) which could be related > to erroreous memory using a few different types on non-brand non-ECC > DRAM/EDO/SDRAM. Also, I guess the ECC RAM is slower since it probably > employs an error checking algorithm. > > Jozef Skvarcek > jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu RE ECC RAM: I am looking at a price list from a vendor and find, for "PC100 SDRAM (100 MHz)" the following" 168 pin SDRAM 256 MEG 32X64 $513 168 pin SDRAM ECC 256 MEG 32X64 $536 It seems to be a modest Delta$ for the value received. Most of the chip sets whose specs I have examined support ECC, including the od LX, the BX, and the NX. I sorely miss the current non-availability of the old HX set for the Pentiums, since it had ECC. In general, the specs I've seen show that using ECC costs nothing in performance GIVEN THAT YOU ARE USING A SYSTEM THAT CAN DO IT. The only time you take a hit is when an error is detected; then the question becomes whether you want to know about it. If it's a single-bit error in the 64-bit memory word, it's corrected on the fly so your answer is right. If it's a multiple-bit error, it can't be corrected and there is a processor trap (what happens then is up to the OS). As for me, I'll pay a little more for the ECC RAM and sleep better. RE OVERCLOCKING: Historically, vendors of semiconductors have tested to screen their products for speed, temperature range, etc., often putting special circuits in the IC package which are intended to represent the performance envelope they want to claim. These tests generally are NOT extensive (the price would be much higher if they were) What we'd really like to know is the parameter limits Intel uses in grading the chips. Some vendors have been reported to just do the refined tests on only those components that receive the higher grading stamp and can be sold at the higher price. Thus it may mean that lower graded parts simply haven't been tested, not that they failed the tests. I would think that being tested on your problem against your tolerances would be as valid a screening criterion as what the manufacturer might use. Do you have the time and patience to do it? -- Joe Ferguson ferguson.joseph@nesc.epa.gov Lockheed Martin Corp. NESC Support, EPA-RTP -- NC Voice: (919)-541-3716 From gerry@cs.tamu.edu Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:01:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:01:21 -0500 From: Gerry Creager gerry@cs.tamu.edu Subject: Hardware questions, One more Kerr wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Jozef Skvarcek wrote: > > > Thank you to all who responded to my previous questions. > > I think I will send back some conclusions but first I would like > > to ask: > > > > 1. Is it worth to get ECC memory? I don't remember seeing any problem > > (crashed computer, application, garbled data...) which could be related > > to erroreous memory using a few different types on non-brand non-ECC > > DRAM/EDO/SDRAM. Also, I guess the ECC RAM is slower since it probably > > employs an error checking algorithm. > > This depends on your comfort level at having possibly strange results. > Bad memory *does* exist, and the chances of you having bad memory Bad memory surely DOES exist: I just got bitten with some in one of my stand-alone boxes. I had to do a shutdown for some facilities maintenance and when we powered back up, it was dead... the box never made it through the boot process. Memory failure wasthe diagnosis, and a rapid repair was effected. For all the world, the failure mode, to me, looked like processor or mother board! Gerry Creager Mapping Sciences Lab Texas A&M University From kpm@ids.net Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:36:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:36:33 -0500 From: Kevin McAloon kpm@ids.net Subject: MOLECULAR MODELING APPLICATION Hello, Are any active list members working with molecular modeling? Rendering and recognition stuff. I'm hunting applications down. So if anyone can assist it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. mac -- Where do you want to go next year - support open source systems >From the MacroHard Federation - Rhode Island member From hahn@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:16:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:16:47 -0500 From: Mark Hahn hahn@coffee.psychology.mcmaster.ca Subject: Hardware questions, One more > I am looking at a price list from a vendor and find, for "PC100 SDRAM > (100 MHz)" the following" > 168 pin SDRAM 256 MEG 32X64 $513 > 168 pin SDRAM ECC 256 MEG 32X64 $536 > It seems to be a modest Delta$ for the value received. strange prices. ECC always does reflect the physical premium of containing 9/8 as much ram. 536 is a decent price, but 513 is too much: should be no more than 455 (see http://www.thechipmerchant.com/complete.htm). > In general, the specs I've seen show that using ECC costs nothing in > performance GIVEN THAT YOU ARE USING A SYSTEM THAT CAN DO IT. The only no, it always costs at least one cycle, on all Intel chipsets, if you turn on ECC. parity is free, though, and since errors are so rare, might be the better choice sometimes. I think the cycle overhead is pipelined, though, so you go from something like a 7111 burst to 8111. you should decide about ECC based on how much ram you have, how hard you use it (those are the two main factors determining how often you'll see and error) and how much an error will cost. regards, mark hahn. From fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:53:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:53:47 -0500 From: Doug Fortune fortuned@cuug.ab.ca Subject: MOLECULAR MODELING APPLICATION Kevin McAloon wrote: > Hello, > Are any active list members working with molecular modeling? Rendering > and recognition stuff. I'm hunting applications down. So if anyone can assist > it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. One you might check out is PMD (Parallel Molecular Dynamics)which can run PVM. http://tincan.bioc.columbia.edu/pmd Doug Fortune Calgary From josip@icase.edu Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:40:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:40:14 -0500 From: Josip Loncaric josip@icase.edu Subject: g77 problems We just installed egcs-1.1.1 and g77 is still missing the ability to accept intrinsic functions like MAX() in PARAMETER statements. As a result, standard LAPACK cannot be compiled unmodified because its timing routines contain constructs such as: INTRINSIC MAX PARAMETER ( LWORK = MAX( MAXN*( 4*MAXN+2 ), $ 2*LDAMAX+1+3*MAXN+2*MAXN*LG2MXN+3*MAXN**2 ) ) Moreover, LAPACK tests of complex number routines dump core, unless the compiler switch -fno-emulate-complex is added. This problem was seen with the g77 -O3 -funroll-all-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -m486 -malign-double compiler command. Although this g77 can produce code which runs several times faster than the same code compiled with "fort77 -O", at least fort77 compiles LAPACK without any problems. Josip -- Dr. Josip Loncaric, Senior Staff Scientist mailto:josip@icase.edu ICASE, Mail Stop 403 http://www.icase.edu/~josip/ NASA Langley Research Center mailto:j.loncaric@larc.nasa.gov Hampton, VA 23681-2199, USA Tel. +1 757 864-2192 Fax +1 757 864-6134 From smulder@netscape.net Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:09:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:09:33 -0500 From: Sam Mulder smulder@netscape.net Subject: Introduction Hello, I've been using Linux now for under a year but I've had a lot of experience with computers in general (TI99/4a,DOS,Windows,etc). I'm trying to get my own Beowulf cluster started for experimentation and testing. The biggest problem I'm having is lack of documentation. I've found a few sources online claiming to be tutorials on how to set up a Beowulf but they are insufficient. They generally just list the files used on the authors particular cluster without any explanation. I'm interested in gaining a thorough understanding of the Beowulf system and distributed computing in general and I understand that I will need to look at the source code to do so but I'd really like to be able to get something up and working before I have to take that leap. Does anyone know of better resources? Are there any good introductory books in progress from O'reilly or someone else? Is there any hope that this technology will become more accessible? I'm confident that I will be able to figure the system out but I'd also like to have something to recommend to friends looking to do the same. I do have some good books about distributed computing but nothing very introductory. Thanks for your help, Sam Mulder sam@sleepless.to (preferred) smulder@netscape.net (used for lists) smulder@ttu.edu ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail From mad96@hamp.hampshire.edu Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:05:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:05:22 -0500 From: Michael Dartt mad96@hamp.hampshire.edu Subject: Introduction--I second that motion Greetings everyone, I, too, am an experienced computer user/programmer who is planning on setting up a cluster for my college. I've also found the Web documentation rather sparse for my needs: most of the pages I've seen that give any instructions do so only for homogeneous systems. I'm planning on building a heterogenous system, and I'm still uncertain about a few issues. If anyone has any tips or pointers towards useful docs, I'd be *very* grateful. Basically, I'd like the cluster to function like one big computer, to the extent that that's possible. I.e. if I've got 10 80MB hard drives, I'd like to be able to access them as one 800MB drive (at least as far as the kernel, accounts, and the like go). Ideally, I'd also like to use the processors in the same way, but I've been told that's only possible if the applications have been explicitly written to take advantage of multiple processors. Finally, I'd like to implement some sort of redundancy to guard against faulty components. Is any of this possible? Or is a cluster basically a bunch of individual computers, only providing an advantage for multiprocessor applications? Thank you for your help. Mike From phro@segfault.ind.WPI.EDU Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:07:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:07:36 -0500 From: Jeffrey Moyer phro@segfault.ind.WPI.EDU Subject: Introduction ==> Regarding Introduction; Sam Mulder adds: smulder> Hello, I've been using Linux now for under a year but I've had a smulder> lot of experience with computers in general smulder> (TI99/4a,DOS,Windows,etc). I'm trying to get my own Beowulf smulder> cluster started for experimentation and testing. The biggest smulder> problem I'm having is lack of documentation. I've found a few smulder> sources online claiming to be tutorials on how to set up a Beowulf smulder> but they are insufficient. They generally just list the files smulder> used on the authors particular cluster without any explanation. Try this HOWTO http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/jacek/beowulf/HOWTO/ smulder> I'm interested in gaining a thorough understanding of the Beowulf smulder> system and distributed computing in general and I understand that smulder> I will need to look at the source code to do so but I'd really No, you really don't need to look at the source code. What you need to do is read the above HOWTO. It has a good definition of Beowulf, and some other beginner info that you should find interesting. smulder> like to be able to get something up and working before I have to smulder> take that leap. Does anyone know of better resources? Are there smulder> any good introductory books in progress from O'reilly or someone smulder> else? Is there any hope that this technology will become more smulder> accessible? I'm confident that I will be able to figure the More accessible? I won't write a dissertation on this, but I think you should rephrase that question. Open source is quite accessible. smulder> system out but I'd also like to have something to recommend to smulder> friends looking to do the same. I do have some good books about smulder> distributed computing but nothing very introductory. A good book to start with is "High Performance Computing," published by O'Reilly and Assoc. Unfortuantely (for me), most of the examples are in fortran. *shrug* Anyway, it talks about architectures, some of the evolution thereof, and good explaination on why that evolution occurred. Then covers such topics as compiler optimizations, parallelizing code, and then PVM and MPI. A very good compilation. Now, on the whole, you will find setting up a Beowulf consists of installing linux on a bunch of machines, isolating these machine on a private network, perhaps installing a kernel patch or two for channel bonding and/or global process ID's, installing 3rd party software (if you will) like PVM and MPI. On the whole, a cluster is of no use to someone who doesn't have parallel applications. :) Though, I am sure you will use it as a tool to learn parallel programming, yes? Hope this is the sort of thing you were looking for. -Jeff From deadline@plogic.com Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:33:02 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:33:02 -0500 From: Douglas Eadline deadline@plogic.com Subject: Introduction--I second that motion On Thu, 14 Jan 1999, Michael Dartt wrote: > Greetings everyone, > > I, too, am an experienced computer user/programmer who is planning on > setting up a cluster for my college. I've also found the Web > documentation rather sparse for my needs: most of the pages I've seen that > give any instructions do so only for homogeneous systems. I'm planning on > building a heterogenous system, and I'm still uncertain about a few > issues. If anyone has any tips or pointers towards useful docs, I'd be > *very* grateful. > > Basically, I'd like the cluster to function like one big computer, to the > extent that that's possible. I.e. if I've got 10 80MB hard drives, I'd > like to be able to access them as one 800MB drive (at least as far as the > kernel, accounts, and the like go). Ideally, I'd also like to use the > processors in the same way, but I've been told that's only possible if the > applications have been explicitly written to take advantage of multiple > processors. Finally, I'd like to implement some sort of redundancy to > guard against faulty components. > > Is any of this possible? Or is a cluster basically a bunch of individual > computers, only providing an advantage for multiprocessor applications? Sure it is possible. But it does not exist - if it did most of us would be out of business. Unfortunateley there is no free lunch. The howto presents some of the issues that you must contend with, but there are many more. I do not have single referenece handyy. Doug ------------------------------------------------------------------- Paralogic, Inc. | PEAK | Voice:+610.861.6960 115 Research Drive | PARALLEL | Fax:+610.861.8247 Bethlehem, PA 18017 USA | PERFORMANCE | http://www.plogic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwright@panam.edu Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:15:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:15:58 -0500 From: Jeff/Carol Wright jwright@panam.edu Subject: desperate This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BE400B.C930F780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am setting up a small Beowulf as a master's project and am completely = new to networking in general. I have gotten all the nodes to "ping" now = except one, which just sits and tries with no response -- it is as if it = is cutoff from the rest of the network. I fixed the plug-n-play problem = with the 3Com 3c509b and all the rest were detected and set up properly = and communicate with each other. It is just the one and I have swapped = the cards and connection all around to make sure that it is not faulty = hardware. The ornery one is configured exactly the same as the others. = They are all the same machine, same mb, same card with a slightly = different version number on the bios. Anyone have a clue?? I am getting = desperate to get this thing operational and move on to the actual = software project. Any ideas?? Jeff Wright ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BE400B.C930F780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am setting up a small Beowulf as a = master's=20 project and am completely new to networking in general.  I have = gotten all=20 the nodes to "ping" now except one, which just sits and tries = with no=20 response -- it is as if it is cutoff from the rest of the network.  = I fixed=20 the plug-n-play problem with the 3Com 3c509b and all the rest were = detected and=20 set up properly and communicate with each other.  It is just the = one and I=20 have swapped the cards and connection all around to make sure that it is = not=20 faulty hardware.  The ornery one is configured exactly the same as = the=20 others.  They are all the same machine, same mb, same card with a = slightly=20 different version number on the bios.  Anyone have a clue?? I am = getting=20 desperate to get this thing operational and move on to the actual = software=20 project.  Any ideas??
Jeff = Wright
------=_NextPart_000_0049_01BE400B.C930F780-- From jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:07:53 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:07:53 -0500 From: Jozef Skvarcek jozef@fatra.ph.hunter.cuny.edu Subject: Introduction Hello, On 14 Jan 1999, Sam Mulder wrote: > Hello, I've been using Linux now for under a year but I've had a lot of > experience with computers in general (TI99/4a,DOS,Windows,etc). I'm trying to > get my own Beowulf cluster started for experimentation and testing. The > biggest problem I'm having is lack of documentation. I've found a few sources > online claiming to be tutorials on how to set up a Beowulf but they are > insufficient. They generally just list the files used on the authors > particular cluster without any explanation. I'm interested in gaining a I felt similarly a few days ago when I was looking for the "instalation instructions", one usualy expect when reading about the beowulf clusters for the first time that some special software should be installed. The truth really is, according my current uderstanding, that a cluster of computers is called to be of `beowulf' kind if it consists of ordinary, mass produced hardware and employing Linux (I guess) as OS. That is, there is no special beowulf software to install which would make from your cluster the `beowulf'. > thorough understanding of the Beowulf system and distributed computing in > general and I understand that I will need to look at the source code to do so > but I'd really like to be able to get something up and working before I have > to take that leap. Does anyone know of better resources? Are there any good > introductory books in progress from O'reilly or someone else? Is there any > hope that this technology will become more accessible? I'm confident that I > will be able to figure the system out but I'd also like to have something to > recommend to friends looking to do the same. I do have some good books about > distributed computing but nothing very introductory. I am in similar situation, this time I am figuring out the proper hardware for our first small virtual machine. Maybe it is good idea just to grab some software used for parallel programing and administering such cluster. The two most widely used, as I know, are the PVM and MPI. The PVM seems to be more popular and easier to program with. Also, you can download great manual for it in PostScript or HTML. In order to start work with PVM you don't need much, extreme minimum is one machine running as master and slave. That's like what I am doing, I installed PVM ver 3.4 beta 7 on two Pentium machines with RedHat 5.1 (kernel 2.0.35) and Debian 2.0 (2.0.35). It compiled without a problem, then I tried the example applications that came with the source, without problem again... The only book I have read so far was `High Performance Computing' by O'Reilly (2nd edition), I didn't like it much, however, it provided terminology and itroduction into a few useful concepts. I hope this helps, if interested e-mail me privately I will send you the web links, Jozef Skvarcek jskvarce@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu From phro@segfault.ind.WPI.EDU Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:54:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:54:29 -0500 From: Jeffrey Moyer phro@segfault.ind.WPI.EDU Subject: Introduction--I second that motion ==> Regarding Re: Introduction--I second that motion; Michael Dartt adds: mad96> Greetings everyone, I, too, am an experienced computer mad96> user/programmer who is planning on setting up a cluster for my mad96> college. I've also found the Web documentation rather sparse for my mad96> needs: most of the pages I've seen that give any instructions do so mad96> only for homogeneous systems. I'm planning on building a mad96> heterogenous system, and I'm still uncertain about a few issues. If mad96> anyone has any tips or pointers towards useful docs, I'd be *very* mad96> grateful. See previous post. ick. I wasn't going to tackle this one tonight, but here goes... mad96> Basically, I'd like the cluster to function like one big computer, mad96> to the extent that that's possible. I.e. if I've got 10 80MB hard mad96> drives, I'd like to be able to access them as one 800MB drive (at mad96> least as far as the kernel, accounts, and the like go). Ideally, I do believe this was the intent of nfs. The nfs implementation for linux is certainly not the fastest in the world, however. This is also not so transparent as I am sure you would like. By this, I mean only that you cannot have a file larger than 80MB, if your largest hdd is 80MB. I think I heard about work being done that would allow for a 'cluster file system,' but I can't remember where I saw it. In short, no, I don't think this exists right now. mad96> I'd also like to use the processors in the same way, but I've been mad96> told that's only possible if the applications have been explicitly mad96> written to take advantage of multiple processors. Finally, I'd like Well, you certainly won't have your program accessing registers on another cpu. :) However, you may want to look into MOSIX. These are kernel patches which allow for transparent process migration and memory ushering. http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/mirrors/mosix/ mad96> to implement some sort of redundancy to guard against faulty mad96> components. This can be done with software that I have not yet written. Not necessarily as accurate as one would hope, but it will guard against at least a machine falling off of the face of the planet. That project is slated to finish in early May. I'll be sure to post my first release. mad96> Is any of this possible? Or is a cluster basically a bunch of mad96> individual computers, only providing an advantage for multiprocessor mad96> applications? A beowulf is a PoPCs (Pile of PCs). A beowulf is a type of cluster. It certainly is not the definition of 'cluster.' Other clusters (commercial ones