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<p>On 1/25/19 12:15 PM, John Hearns via Beowulf wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPqNE2WR+yFr6Qkc6Kbe6QFviUu5zKpH_t3BYAD-X3o94G8cDQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div><span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
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Using this technology means a complete redesign of your
server hardware and possibly your racks.</span></div>
<span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
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<div><span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;text-align:left;color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;text-decoration:none;word-spacing:0px;display:inline;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;float:none;background-color:transparent">It
does say it fits in standard OpenCompute racks. But I gues
the racks are the only thing you get to keep.</span></div>
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</blockquote>
Exactly. It might work with the OC racks, but the servers still have
to be completely redesigned so that all the heat-producing
components can be mated directly to that thing. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPqNE2WR+yFr6Qkc6Kbe6QFviUu5zKpH_t3BYAD-X3o94G8cDQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div><span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
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think I understand what they are getting at - that shape
will cause expansion of the air volume, and hence cooling.</span></div>
<div><span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;text-align:left;color:rgb(34,34,34);text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;text-decoration:none;word-spacing:0px;display:inline;white-space:normal;font-size-adjust:none;font-stretch:normal;float:none;background-color:transparent">I
guess like SR71 engine spikes or something.</span></div>
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</blockquote>
<p>My understanding was that the inlet spikes on the SR71 weren't
about expanding the air volume, but for repositioning the edge
air's shock wave for the correct air intake into the engine <br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#Air_inlets">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#Air_inlets</a><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPqNE2WR+yFr6Qkc6Kbe6QFviUu5zKpH_t3BYAD-X3o94G8cDQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>But how the <span style="font:400 13.33px/19.99px
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do they move the air fast enough to do the cooling without
fans?</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
There is a fan on the outlet, what is known as an induced-draft fan
(as opposed to a "forced-draft" fan, which is on the inlet.)<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<div>They keep referring to external air. Which is fine. But if
you ever want to do this make sure the external air is WELL
filtered.</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>Agreed. If the fins are that small, then this air would need to
be HEPA filtered or something. I would imagine moving that much
air would carry enough dust particles to clog those fins and
drastically reduce the efficiency of the system in a reasonably
short period of time (6 months? 1 year?) But then the finer your
filter, the greater the pressure drop across it, and the harder
your fans have to work, which reduces energy efficiency....</p>
<p>Which law of thermodynamics says there's no such thing as a free
lunch? <br>
</p>
<p>Prentice<br>
</p>
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 16:33,
Prentice Bisbal via Beowulf <<a
href="mailto:beowulf@beowulf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">beowulf@beowulf.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">
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<p>You all know how much I like talking about heat transfer
and server cooling, so I decided to do some research on
this product:</p>
<p>Here's their website: <br>
</p>
<p><a
class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://forcedphysics.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://forcedphysics.com</a><br>
</p>
<p>and here's their YouTube channel with 5 videos:<br>
</p>
<p><a
class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClwWeahYGuNl0THWVz1Hyow/videos"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClwWeahYGuNl0THWVz1Hyow/videos</a> </p>
<p>This is really nothing more than an air-cooled heatsink.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to call BS on this technology
for the following reasons: <br>
</p>
<p>1. It still uses air as the primary cooling medium. I
just don't think air has adequate thermal conductivity or
thermal capacity to serve modern processor, no matter what
you do to it. <br>
</p>
<p>2. In the videos, they present highly idealized tests
with no control to use for comparison. How do I know I
wouldn't get the same results doing the same experiment
but using a similar duct fashioned out of sheet metal. <br>
</p>
<p>3. Using this technology means a complete redesign of
your server hardware and possibly your racks.</p>
<p>4. None of the information in the videos or on their
website really explains how this technology works, and
what really differentiates it from any other air-cooled
heat sink. Most people with a good invention are usually
excited to tell you how it works. Since they brag about 30
international patents for this, there's no need to try to
protect a trade secret. </p>
<p>5. This statement:</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite">The fins work like teeth in a comb,
neatly orienting air molecules to point in the same
direction and arranging them into columns. </blockquote>
<p>Based on my education, this statement seems to be
completely devoid of science. <br>
</p>
<p>This statement seems to defy the laws of physics. Last
time I checked, unless an atom or molecule is at absolute
zero, it has movement, whether it's spinning or vibrating,
or both, so how can they get air molecules to line up all
in neat little rows, where the molecules are all pointing
the same way? </p>
<p>This also implies very laminar flow. As fluid velocity
increases that the diameter of the channel decreases, the
Reynolds Number increases. As the Reynold's number goes
up, turbulence increases, so mathematically, I would
expect this flow to be tubulent, and not laminar. From my
classes on heat transfer, turbulent flow around the heat
transfer surface increases heat transfer, so laminar flow
in this case wouldn't be a good thing. <br>
</p>
<p>Until they can provide better comparisons with real
servers in real data center environments, I'm going to
classify this as "snake oil"<br>
</p>
<p><a
class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil</a><br>
</p>
<pre class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-signature" cols="72">Prentice</pre>
<div class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-cite-prefix">On
1/24/19 3:54 PM, <a
class="gmail-m_2373901693516323230moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:Chuck_Petras@selinc.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Chuck_Petras@selinc.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif">Well,
this is interesting.</font> <br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">"According to Forced
Physics’ <</font><a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forcedphysics.com_&d=DwMFAw&c=-_uRSsrpJskZgEkGwdW-sXvhn_FXVaEGsm0EI46qilk&r=fawF3TRTwCqlaBkoLcxYCr4F4NRwCc64hmEgi9rHPpE&m=zr6lAlVphGxOQTXSElww9hGpqb9IZPik0_MN2v8Fqjs&s=lb4Hi9X8NKIYWe_e1RU3Cw4gr9Uz_B7n5pnCNY0ss3U&e="
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="blue" size="2" face="sans-serif">https://forcedphysics.com/</font>
[forcedphysics.com]</a><font size="2" face="sans-serif">>
chief technology officer, David Binger, the company’s
conductor can help a typical data center eliminate its
need for water or refrigerants and shrink its 22-MW load
by 7.72 MW, which translates to an annual reduction of
67.6 million kWh. That data center could also save a
total of US $45 million a year on infrastructure,
operating, and energy costs with the new system,
according to Binger. “We are solving the problem that
electrons create,” he said."</font> <br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">A Cooler Cloud: A Clever
Conduit Cuts Data Centers’ Cooling Needs by 90 Percent</font>
<br>
<a
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__spectrum.ieee.org_energy_environment_a-2Dcooler-2Dcloud-2Da-2Dclever-2Dconduit-2Dcuts-2Ddata-2Dcenters-2Dcooling-2Dneeds-2Dby-2D90-2Dpercent&d=DwMFAw&c=-_uRSsrpJskZgEkGwdW-sXvhn_FXVaEGsm0EI46qilk&r=fawF3TRTwCqlaBkoLcxYCr4F4NRwCc64hmEgi9rHPpE&m=zr6lAlVphGxOQTXSElww9hGpqb9IZPik0_MN2v8Fqjs&s=VuDTSuinKPMpF6NCztFZkSGOVo3LD7MLjroIj_sn0ao&e="
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="blue" size="2" face="sans-serif">https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/a-cooler-cloud-a-clever-conduit-cuts-data-centers-cooling-needs-by-90-percent</font>
[spectrum.ieee.org]</a> <br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Chuck Petras, PE**<br>
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories, Inc<br>
Pullman, WA 99163 USA<br>
</font><a href="http://www.selinc.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">http://www.selinc.com</font></a><font
size="2" face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
SEL Synchrophasors - A New View of the Power System <</font><a
href="http://synchrophasor.selinc.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font size="2" face="sans-serif">http://synchrophasor.selinc.com</font></a><font
size="2" face="sans-serif">><br>
<br>
Making Electric Power Safer, More Reliable, and More
Economical (R)<br>
<br>
** Registered in Oregon.<br>
</font> <br>
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